WOW new one for me - Page 2

AhhhFresh · 05-23-07, 09:42 AM

Cool! I'm on my second patrol out of Brisbane in a S-42 class boat, left on July 27th 1942, and I decided to cruise up through the Solomons by Guadalcanal and Tulagi... August 1st just as I pass by to head through the aforementioned "slot" I got word from HQ that Operation Watchtower was starting in 6 days and it's open season in the Solomons.

I wonder how long after the invasion they put a tender there?

So far around the Solomons I haven't seen much of anything except Sampans... hope it picks up soon!

AVGWarhawk · 05-23-07, 09:48 AM

@AF,

I'm at the start of 42 and the port south of Tulagi is loaded with Japanese. Tulagi is the spot with the anchor. I'm not sure if it will show in 41 or not. I just noticed this two nights ago. Right now, the slot is very busy for me but I have to go take pictures off Japan. Orders is orders

UnSalted · 05-23-07, 09:53 AM

Unless the orders are accompanied by a date to accomplish, I figure targets are targets..let COMSUBPAC wait.

AVGWarhawk · 05-23-07, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnSalted

Unless the orders are accompanied by a date to accomplish, I figure targets are targets..let COMSUBPAC wait.

True! I'm working the campaign as it is layed out attempting to find out if step by step completion prevents the repeats all the time. I did nail two tankers on the way out for my photo session

AhhhFresh · 05-23-07, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

@AF,

I'm at the start of 42 and the port south of Tulagi is loaded with Japanese. Tulagi is the spot with the anchor. I'm not sure if it will show in 41 or not. I just noticed this two nights ago. Right now, the slot is very busy for me but I have to go take pictures off Japan. Orders is orders

Well, Tulagi/Guadalcanal wasn't invaded before Aug 7th 1942... so you have to be playing after that.

Honiara on Guadalcanal is the port to the south of Tulagi... and I'm just about to scout it out, so we'll see!

tater · 05-23-07, 10:24 AM

Honaria never existed during the war, there was no port there at all. I deleted it because I lost my mind every time I saw it.

Also, tankers should never go to Guadalcanal, and the merchants that DO go to Guadalcanal should stop in November, 1942 (where the last such tripended in utter disaster for the IJN). The campaign layers are particularly bad in the SWPA. There are jap ships steaming to Port Moresby, etc.

The ships off guadalcanal (US) should just be at anchor with lighters and landing craft to take stuff ashore. Maybe a CB built long pier later, I'd have to look, since I've never seen a single picture of any facility at all of any size there. The japanese had nothing at all there, most transports that survived to land stuff ran aground so they'd be able to unload even after being bombed.

AhhhFresh · 05-23-07, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Honaria never existed during the war, there was no port there at all. I deleted it because I lost my mind every time I saw it.

Also, tankers should never go to Guadalcanal, and the merchants that DO go to Guadalcanal should stop in November, 1942 (where the last such tripended in utter disaster for the IJN). The campaign layers are particularly bad in the SWPA. There are jap ships steaming to Port Moresby, etc.

The ships off guadalcanal (US) should just be at anchor with lighters and landing craft to take stuff ashore. Maybe a CB built long pier later, I'd have to look, since I've never seen a single picture of any facility at all of any size there. The japanese had nothing at all there, most transports that survived to land stuff ran aground so they'd be able to unload even after being bombed.

Well the Tokyo Express had to be running supplies somewhere... so after you delete Honaria, where does the war material go?

AVGWarhawk · 05-23-07, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Honaria never existed during the war, there was no port there at all.

There is not actual port here. Just ships in a cove. If you do not mind, I look on the net about this Honaria and see how it relates to this game.

tater · 05-23-07, 10:51 AM

One, Honaria was built on the location of the US bases after the war. The BS port there is right near Lunga Point. They'd find it a little difficult, unless they desired to give their supplies to the Marines.

Two, they did not have a port there. The landed stuff with barges from anchored ships. The "Tokyo Express" (called "Cactus Express" at the time, which was changed to "Tokyo" by the press to avoid using the US code word for Guadalcanal, "Cactus" (like the press would do that now...)) was mostly DDs acting as erzatz APDs. The cargo was literally dumped into the sea nearby, and picked up or not by the ground forces with what boats they had. None the less, it was not at Lunga, but farther west (Cape Esperance area).

In any case, this traffic should drop to zero after February '43, and after the invasion in August, '42, it should ONLY be at night. The extant layers really suck in the Slot.

tater · 05-23-07, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Quote:

Honaria never existed during the war, there was no port there at all.

There is not actual port here. Just ships in a cove. If you do not mind, I look on the net about this Honaria and see how it relates to this game.

Dunno about your game, but I see (saw, before I deleted it) a port there, it's in Campaign_LOC.mis, too. <SHRUG>

Regardless, there should be no japanese ships at anchor at Guadalcanal, except maybe when they first dropped guys off to build the airstrip, and even then, just for a handful of days. After that, and absolutely after August, 1942, the only "parked" ships belonging to the japs should be aground, or wrecks. After November, not a single Merchant ship (and no tankers, not ever) should even head that way, only warships.

tater

AVGWarhawk · 05-23-07, 11:01 AM

Japanese forces occupied the Solomon Islands in January 1942. The counter-attack was led by the United States; the 1st Division of the US Marine Corps landed on Guadalcanal and Tulagi in August 1942. Some of the bitterest fighting of World War II took place on the islands for almost three years. Tulagi, the seat of the British administration on the island of Nggela Sule in Central Province was destroyed in the heavy fighting following landings by the US Marines. Then the tough battle for Guadalcanal, which was centred on the capture of the airfield, Henderson field, led to the development of the adjacent town of Honiara as the United States logistics centre.

Here is what I found on the Solomons and Tulagi. I'm there in 42 but I think is is December. Perhaps they held it that long I do not know. Still checking on Honaria

AVGWarhawk · 05-23-07, 11:04 AM

Quote:

The extant layers really suck in the Slot.

@Tater,

Can you adjust and look at the layers thus starting a mod that controls the amount of ships and when they appear etc?

AhhhFresh · 05-23-07, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

One, Honaria was built on the location of the US bases after the war. The BS port there is right near Lunga Point. They'd find it a little difficult, unless they desired to give their supplies to the Marines.

Two, they did not have a port there. The landed stuff with barges from anchored ships. The "Tokyo Express" (called "Cactus Express" at the time, which was changed to "Tokyo" by the press to avoid using the US code word for Guadalcanal, "Cactus" (like the press would do that now...)) was mostly DDs acting as erzatz APDs. The cargo was literally dumped into the sea nearby, and picked up or not by the ground forces with what boats they had. None the less, it was not at Lunga, but farther west (Cape Esperance area).

In any case, this traffic should drop to zero after February '43, and after the invasion in August, '42, it should ONLY be at night. The extant layers really suck in the Slot.

I know all that... but I'm asking what you do for the game. Don't convoys and shipping have to go somewhere?

Can you have convoys spawning without a destination port?

I figured it was just convienent shorthand to get things to work.

tater · 05-23-07, 11:21 AM

Yeah, it is certainly possible.

I plan on doing a full modification of the layers at some point, but like many I was waiting to find out about 1.3 I think. I have a set right now that I might release as a mod, assuming no one minds that it is merely a bash of the current layers. I wanted to do a really compulsive set of layers, but certain things make that impossible (no persistance of units, etc).

Someone else was also working on the Slot as I recall. It really needs to be scripted—it's be cool to clone a jap DD and replace some of the deck stuff (sailors, etc) with cargo, dunno if it is possible, though. You could also have the ship come to a near stop offshore, then have rafts appear next to it for unloading...

tater · 05-23-07, 11:23 AM

Oh! Sorry, I misunderstood you.

No, the game doesn't care. Since there is no dynamic anything, cargo doesn't ever arrive anywhere, the game doesn't keep track of that. Ships can appear or disappear anywhere.

The layers are divided into things like lone (100% of 1, 25% of a 2d) merchant by year, task forces by year, convoys, etc.

The paths are just placed on the map, with a % chance of the group spawning every X hours (ypically a large number of hours, hundreds plus). There is no requirement for ports, ports are just window dressing.

05-23-07, 09:48 AM	#17
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,257 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	@AF, I'm at the start of 42 and the port south of Tulagi is loaded with Japanese. Tulagi is the spot with the anchor. I'm not sure if it will show in 41 or not. I just noticed this two nights ago. Right now, the slot is very busy for me but I have to go take pictures off Japan. Orders is orders __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

05-23-07, 11:01 AM	#26
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,257 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Japanese forces occupied the Solomon Islands in January 1942. The counter-attack was led by the United States; the 1st Division of the US Marine Corps landed on Guadalcanal and Tulagi in August 1942. Some of the bitterest fighting of World War II took place on the islands for almost three years. Tulagi, the seat of the British administration on the island of Nggela Sule in Central Province was destroyed in the heavy fighting following landings by the US Marines. Then the tough battle for Guadalcanal, which was centred on the capture of the airfield, Henderson field, led to the development of the adjacent town of Honiara as the United States logistics centre. Here is what I found on the Solomons and Tulagi. I'm there in 42 but I think is is December. Perhaps they held it that long I do not know. Still checking on Honaria __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

05-23-07, 09:42 AM	#16
AhhhFresh Mate Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 52 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Cool! I'm on my second patrol out of Brisbane in a S-42 class boat, left on July 27th 1942, and I decided to cruise up through the Solomons by Guadalcanal and Tulagi... August 1st just as I pass by to head through the aforementioned "slot" I got word from HQ that Operation Watchtower was starting in 6 days and it's open season in the Solomons. I wonder how long after the invasion they put a tender there? So far around the Solomons I haven't seen much of anything except Sampans... hope it picks up soon!

05-23-07, 09:53 AM	#18
UnSalted Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 130 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Unless the orders are accompanied by a date to accomplish, I figure targets are targets..let COMSUBPAC wait.

05-23-07, 10:24 AM	#21
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Honaria never existed during the war, there was no port there at all. I deleted it because I lost my mind every time I saw it. Also, tankers should never go to Guadalcanal, and the merchants that DO go to Guadalcanal should stop in November, 1942 (where the last such tripended in utter disaster for the IJN). The campaign layers are particularly bad in the SWPA. There are jap ships steaming to Port Moresby, etc. The ships off guadalcanal (US) should just be at anchor with lighters and landing craft to take stuff ashore. Maybe a CB built long pier later, I'd have to look, since I've never seen a single picture of any facility at all of any size there. The japanese had nothing at all there, most transports that survived to land stuff ran aground so they'd be able to unload even after being bombed.

05-23-07, 10:51 AM	#24
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	One, Honaria was built on the location of the US bases after the war. The BS port there is right near Lunga Point. They'd find it a little difficult, unless they desired to give their supplies to the Marines. Two, they did not have a port there. The landed stuff with barges from anchored ships. The "Tokyo Express" (called "Cactus Express" at the time, which was changed to "Tokyo" by the press to avoid using the US code word for Guadalcanal, "Cactus" (like the press would do that now...)) was mostly DDs acting as erzatz APDs. The cargo was literally dumped into the sea nearby, and picked up or not by the ground forces with what boats they had. None the less, it was not at Lunga, but farther west (Cape Esperance area). In any case, this traffic should drop to zero after February '43, and after the invasion in August, '42, it should ONLY be at night. The extant layers really suck in the Slot.

05-23-07, 11:21 AM	#29
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, it is certainly possible. I plan on doing a full modification of the layers at some point, but like many I was waiting to find out about 1.3 I think. I have a set right now that I might release as a mod, assuming no one minds that it is merely a bash of the current layers. I wanted to do a really compulsive set of layers, but certain things make that impossible (no persistance of units, etc). Someone else was also working on the Slot as I recall. It really needs to be scripted—it's be cool to clone a jap DD and replace some of the deck stuff (sailors, etc) with cargo, dunno if it is possible, though. You could also have the ship come to a near stop offshore, then have rafts appear next to it for unloading...

05-23-07, 11:23 AM	#30
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Oh! Sorry, I misunderstood you. No, the game doesn't care. Since there is no dynamic anything, cargo doesn't ever arrive anywhere, the game doesn't keep track of that. Ships can appear or disappear anywhere. The layers are divided into things like lone (100% of 1, 25% of a 2d) merchant by year, task forces by year, convoys, etc. The paths are just placed on the map, with a % chance of the group spawning every X hours (ypically a large number of hours, hundreds plus). There is no requirement for ports, ports are just window dressing.