Warming on hold.......cooling on the way?

moose1am · 05-17-07, 07:49 AM

The proof of Global Warming is in the Pudding. If your data were accurate the Glacial Ice would be building up not Melting at both the North and South Poles.

But you see the Ice IS MELTING. There is proof Positive that even a moron can see. So why don't you note this simple fact. Anyone that tries to argue otherwise must have some AGENDA! Again the polar ice caps are proof positive that the earth is WARMING NOT COOLING.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waste gate

Isn't it amasing how the earth cools itself without the intervention of humans?!!!

If this isn't evidence of how human activity isn't the cause for any warming, what is?

wireman · 05-17-07, 08:17 AM

"bahhh, bahhh" says the sheep.

Skybird · 05-17-07, 08:39 AM

One must not go as far as to the poles to see ice melting. The Alpes is close enough. All glaciers have dissappeared, or have lost 60-80% of their size from less than fifty years ago. Experts examining it (last but not leat hired by the toursim industry) say the remaining glacier will have completely idssapeared in 20-30 years at the latest. within that time frame the Alpes are expected to be snow-free. If you want to do skiing in the Alpes, no matter what country, you better do it now.

Anyhow, recent findings showed that the polar ice is melting much, much faster than previously projected.

In Germany we had the warmest April since the beginning of weather recordings. Agriculture has suffered early, some regions loose up to 50% of the next harvest - and summer even has not begun. The May so far is drowining in rain, again almost to record levels in some regions, which again does damage, and helps funghis to spread.

Shipping on rivers temporarily had been stopped, due to low water. Normally, the ice-melting should have caused floodings.

Insect- and animal-population spreading patterns, and travel paths of animal species, are changing faster than ever known beforem, due to the massive shifts of climatic zones. Sweet water supply is no longer guaranteed in some regions of central and southern europe.

There are fluctuations, but the general trend cannot be overseen, it yells loud and clearly in your ears - as long as you haven't put wax into them. But for some people it cannot be what should not be. Who cares - the changes take place, wether they like it or not. Personal opinions that it should all be different are completely unimportant here.

What was that...? Ouch - was that a hurt ego crying in pain...?

Man better starts to adopt as best as he can - and that means: he better starts NOW. Else the developement simply will overrun him, and future attempts, having been started too late, simply will get buried by the inner dynamics and increasing pace of the changes. Note that I talk of adopting - not chnaging, not to mention preventing what is happening. It is like travelling on a river in a small canoe, that slowly turns into a a white water, and than turns into dangerous rapids. You better get to the beach and get yourself a paddle before continuing. there is a point beyond which the situation is no longer under your control, and you become a playball on the water, not being able to steer or do the smallest corrections on your course, not to mention to reverse your course or get back to the safe beach. In that situation, you cannot do anything anymore, and you will need to go through all of it, and eventually get killed.

There were several small news reports during the last days that several European science institutions complained about a new offensive being launched from industrial lobbies and "think tanks" financed by political conservatives, that is again about attempting to put established scientific conclusions and raw data as well into doubt, and try to make mockery of reports concluding that starting to seriously act now is very urgent after so many years and decades headlessly being wasted. It is the same pattern that I have described and complained about repeatedly in the past three or four months. the only concern of these people is to prevent changes, guard current intererst, clouding the mind of the public, and make sure that nothing gets done that would change profits, and would cost investements. But the investements that are saved now that way will be needed to be payed some hundred times higher in the future.

Since such acting is doing monumental damage to the global communities, steals trillions of bucks in the long run, and makes mockery of the hundreds of millions of people in third world countries who will pay with their economical existence and with their lifes (floodings, lack of sweet water, droughts, soil erosion), for the sins of the global economical system, I call these agendas to still spread doubts and ignore scientific raw data and trying to concela what is happening right now a criminal intend, and a crime against humanity and all mankind. The responsible people for this, sitting in high political and economical positions, should be sentenced at international tribunals. The damage they do is far more lethal and catastrophical and hurting to the economy than what any terrorist organization ever could hope to acchieve all by itself.

Skybird · 05-17-07, 08:43 AM

And Micky comes with the old Mars "argument" again just after I posted. It has been rebuffed time and again, but no matter - bring it forward if it helps your agenda.

micky, are you aware of the different climates and seasonal patterns on Mars and Earth? The differences in weather "rythms" and atmospheres on both planets? Do some Googleing, and you will see why most astronomers LAUGH out loudly about that stupid comparison. I do not waste more time putting it together again.

That argument is what in German is called Stammtisch-Niveau. You could as well make a weather prognosis for the next day on the basis of blue sky and sheep-clouds in Heaven.

05-17-07, 04:28 PM

And then we have this.

Tchocky · 05-17-07, 04:38 PM

Compelling

joea · 05-17-07, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Compelling

Oh yea!!! :rotfl:

August · 05-17-07, 05:42 PM

I thought this one was far more compelling:

micky1up · 05-18-07, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

And Micky comes with the old Mars "argument" again just after I posted. It has been rebuffed time and again, but no matter - bring it forward if it helps your agenda.

micky, are you aware of the different climates and seasonal patterns on Mars and Earth? The differences in weather "rythms" and atmospheres on both planets? Do some Googleing, and you will see why most astronomers LAUGH out loudly about that stupid comparison. I do not waste more time putting it together again.

That argument is what in German is called Stammtisch-Niveau. You could as well make a weather prognosis for the next day on the basis of blue sky and sheep-clouds in Heaven.

and are you aware that reports thet this spring is the warmest spring since 1730 so what was causing the warm spring in 1730 ? cars (delorians lol) trains factories?

Skybird · 05-18-07, 07:26 AM

As somebody already said: there is always fluctuation in natural phenomenons. This does not contradict a stabile trend. And this unusual April is just the latest unusual weather and season phenomenon over here in an already longer line of unusual weather and season phenomenons - since many years. We get all kinds of yearly records over here, from year to year new records, wether it be the ammount of rain, floodings, or droughts. Not always all records together, but over the years it makes a nice mixture.

Weather pohenomenons and seasons without doubt became more extreme. Germany knows the phenomenon of mini-tornadoes living only for seconds and at best pushing a tree since decades, all over the land there used to 20-30 of these, per year. Not worth to be mentioned. Since some years, we see much greater tornados. Not yet as many as of the mini versions, still not as big as the American ones, but several times more serious than in the decades before. Two years ago here in my hometown a street was demolished, house roofs were heavily damaged, and dozens of trees were killed. I don't remember the time, i think it was early last year when in Eastern Germany half of a complete village was heavily dmaaged and partially destroyed. For years ago my father was injured in Berlin when a sudden tornadoe haunted the plaza around the famous Gedächtniskirche and heavily damaged parts of the Europa-Centre, which is a high tower (little skyscraper), and devastated seveeral warehouses, cafes and shops. This is absolutely unsual for Germany. This is a new scale of destruction being done by tornados in Germany. The beasts live longer now, and have much more power.

Just look at that graphics Tchocky posted and you get the idea of fluctuations, and trends. the general global warmth level is higher today than it was back then. An extraordinary cold winter, a warm April or a rainy May does not change that fact. Fluctuatioins are a coinstant zigzagging of the curve. The trend describes a more stable longterm developement.

This year, in my region of Germany we had snow for just 6 hours, on one day. Last year we had two weeks of snow, masses of snow, even electricity broke down and powerline-masts got destroyed in greater parts of Germany, which is extremely unsual over here. Villages and whole cities were cut off, it was a real desaster, it took two weeks to get out of the worst and get all supplies, heating, water running again - not somewhere in a forsaken vally in the high Alpes, but in the flat Northern part of Germany! This does not change that the winters I see today are much, much warmer than they used to be during my schooldays 20-30 years ago. The last two summers were moderate, but 2003 was desastrous. But in a general trend the summers I see now are more dry and much hotter than they were during my childhood.

Fluctuation - and trend. Not difficult.

micky1up · 05-18-07, 08:11 AM

there is a trend ! its tendy to say you believe global waming if your a scientist it get you funds to do research , if you dont believe you get squat to prove your theory and shunned by the trendy scientists

Skybird · 05-18-07, 08:34 AM

It gets you often even more money (from conservative, neoliberal thinktanks and industrial lobbies) if you agree on stepping forward in public and making mockery of every scientific conclusion, finding, series of data that are perceived as a threat to present interst of these financial sources. Even the most absurd argument today finds an echo if it only is repeated often enough - number of repetitions is probably even more important that reasonable convincing content (at leats that is what psychological experiments are indicating...) I have linked not only to news reports, but to orginal document over the last months and I think two years that did not only suggest but proove this.

Maybe the right job for you.

Make mockery of everything you don't like -and get paid for it!

kiwi_2005 · 05-19-07, 06:06 PM

well theirs something not right with the world's climate slowly over the years the north island of New Zealand is getting warmer each winter, its winter here now and im sitting here in my home no fire going wearing jeans and t shirt, we have about 3 weeks of frosts and thats it, our winters are like a cold summer day. Its rapidly becoming warmer each year and we have now what they call a rainy season we never use to have a rainy season!

The hole in the ozone is directly over the north island

05-17-07, 08:39 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,754 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	One must not go as far as to the poles to see ice melting. The Alpes is close enough. All glaciers have dissappeared, or have lost 60-80% of their size from less than fifty years ago. Experts examining it (last but not leat hired by the toursim industry) say the remaining glacier will have completely idssapeared in 20-30 years at the latest. within that time frame the Alpes are expected to be snow-free. If you want to do skiing in the Alpes, no matter what country, you better do it now. Anyhow, recent findings showed that the polar ice is melting much, much faster than previously projected. In Germany we had the warmest April since the beginning of weather recordings. Agriculture has suffered early, some regions loose up to 50% of the next harvest - and summer even has not begun. The May so far is drowining in rain, again almost to record levels in some regions, which again does damage, and helps funghis to spread. Shipping on rivers temporarily had been stopped, due to low water. Normally, the ice-melting should have caused floodings. Insect- and animal-population spreading patterns, and travel paths of animal species, are changing faster than ever known beforem, due to the massive shifts of climatic zones. Sweet water supply is no longer guaranteed in some regions of central and southern europe. There are fluctuations, but the general trend cannot be overseen, it yells loud and clearly in your ears - as long as you haven't put wax into them. But for some people it cannot be what should not be. Who cares - the changes take place, wether they like it or not. Personal opinions that it should all be different are completely unimportant here. What was that...? Ouch - was that a hurt ego crying in pain...? Man better starts to adopt as best as he can - and that means: he better starts NOW. Else the developement simply will overrun him, and future attempts, having been started too late, simply will get buried by the inner dynamics and increasing pace of the changes. Note that I talk of adopting - not chnaging, not to mention preventing what is happening. It is like travelling on a river in a small canoe, that slowly turns into a a white water, and than turns into dangerous rapids. You better get to the beach and get yourself a paddle before continuing. there is a point beyond which the situation is no longer under your control, and you become a playball on the water, not being able to steer or do the smallest corrections on your course, not to mention to reverse your course or get back to the safe beach. In that situation, you cannot do anything anymore, and you will need to go through all of it, and eventually get killed. There were several small news reports during the last days that several European science institutions complained about a new offensive being launched from industrial lobbies and "think tanks" financed by political conservatives, that is again about attempting to put established scientific conclusions and raw data as well into doubt, and try to make mockery of reports concluding that starting to seriously act now is very urgent after so many years and decades headlessly being wasted. It is the same pattern that I have described and complained about repeatedly in the past three or four months. the only concern of these people is to prevent changes, guard current intererst, clouding the mind of the public, and make sure that nothing gets done that would change profits, and would cost investements. But the investements that are saved now that way will be needed to be payed some hundred times higher in the future. Since such acting is doing monumental damage to the global communities, steals trillions of bucks in the long run, and makes mockery of the hundreds of millions of people in third world countries who will pay with their economical existence and with their lifes (floodings, lack of sweet water, droughts, soil erosion), for the sins of the global economical system, I call these agendas to still spread doubts and ignore scientific raw data and trying to concela what is happening right now a criminal intend, and a crime against humanity and all mankind. The responsible people for this, sitting in high political and economical positions, should be sentenced at international tribunals. The damage they do is far more lethal and catastrophical and hurting to the economy than what any terrorist organization ever could hope to acchieve all by itself. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-17-07, 08:43 AM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,754 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	And Micky comes with the old Mars "argument" again just after I posted. It has been rebuffed time and again, but no matter - bring it forward if it helps your agenda. micky, are you aware of the different climates and seasonal patterns on Mars and Earth? The differences in weather "rythms" and atmospheres on both planets? Do some Googleing, and you will see why most astronomers LAUGH out loudly about that stupid comparison. I do not waste more time putting it together again. That argument is what in German is called Stammtisch-Niveau. You could as well make a weather prognosis for the next day on the basis of blue sky and sheep-clouds in Heaven. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-17-07, 04:38 PM	#6
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Compelling __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

05-17-07, 05:42 PM	#8
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,244 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I thought this one was far more compelling: __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

05-18-07, 07:26 AM	#10
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,754 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	As somebody already said: there is always fluctuation in natural phenomenons. This does not contradict a stabile trend. And this unusual April is just the latest unusual weather and season phenomenon over here in an already longer line of unusual weather and season phenomenons - since many years. We get all kinds of yearly records over here, from year to year new records, wether it be the ammount of rain, floodings, or droughts. Not always all records together, but over the years it makes a nice mixture. Weather pohenomenons and seasons without doubt became more extreme. Germany knows the phenomenon of mini-tornadoes living only for seconds and at best pushing a tree since decades, all over the land there used to 20-30 of these, per year. Not worth to be mentioned. Since some years, we see much greater tornados. Not yet as many as of the mini versions, still not as big as the American ones, but several times more serious than in the decades before. Two years ago here in my hometown a street was demolished, house roofs were heavily damaged, and dozens of trees were killed. I don't remember the time, i think it was early last year when in Eastern Germany half of a complete village was heavily dmaaged and partially destroyed. For years ago my father was injured in Berlin when a sudden tornadoe haunted the plaza around the famous Gedächtniskirche and heavily damaged parts of the Europa-Centre, which is a high tower (little skyscraper), and devastated seveeral warehouses, cafes and shops. This is absolutely unsual for Germany. This is a new scale of destruction being done by tornados in Germany. The beasts live longer now, and have much more power. Just look at that graphics Tchocky posted and you get the idea of fluctuations, and trends. the general global warmth level is higher today than it was back then. An extraordinary cold winter, a warm April or a rainy May does not change that fact. Fluctuatioins are a coinstant zigzagging of the curve. The trend describes a more stable longterm developement. This year, in my region of Germany we had snow for just 6 hours, on one day. Last year we had two weeks of snow, masses of snow, even electricity broke down and powerline-masts got destroyed in greater parts of Germany, which is extremely unsual over here. Villages and whole cities were cut off, it was a real desaster, it took two weeks to get out of the worst and get all supplies, heating, water running again - not somewhere in a forsaken vally in the high Alpes, but in the flat Northern part of Germany! This does not change that the winters I see today are much, much warmer than they used to be during my schooldays 20-30 years ago. The last two summers were moderate, but 2003 was desastrous. But in a general trend the summers I see now are more dry and much hotter than they were during my childhood. Fluctuation - and trend. Not difficult. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-17-07, 08:17 AM	#2
wireman Sparky Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 155 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	"bahhh, bahhh" says the sheep.

05-17-07, 04:28 PM	#5
waste gate Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	And then we have this.

05-18-07, 08:11 AM	#11
micky1up Captain Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: helensburgh Posts: 525 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	there is a trend ! its tendy to say you believe global waming if your a scientist it get you funds to do research , if you dont believe you get squat to prove your theory and shunned by the trendy scientists

05-18-07, 08:34 AM	#12
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,754 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It gets you often even more money (from conservative, neoliberal thinktanks and industrial lobbies) if you agree on stepping forward in public and making mockery of every scientific conclusion, finding, series of data that are perceived as a threat to present interst of these financial sources. Even the most absurd argument today finds an echo if it only is repeated often enough - number of repetitions is probably even more important that reasonable convincing content (at leats that is what psychological experiments are indicating...) I have linked not only to news reports, but to orginal document over the last months and I think two years that did not only suggest but proove this. Maybe the right job for you. Make mockery of everything you don't like -and get paid for it! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-19-07, 06:06 PM	#13
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	well theirs something not right with the world's climate slowly over the years the north island of New Zealand is getting warmer each winter, its winter here now and im sitting here in my home no fire going wearing jeans and t shirt, we have about 3 weeks of frosts and thats it, our winters are like a cold summer day. Its rapidly becoming warmer each year and we have now what they call a rainy season we never use to have a rainy season! The hole in the ozone is directly over the north island __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.