Airbus = Bad airplane to fly

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Chock

Only ever made one parachute jump myself, with the Army, static line from a tethered balloon.

Unless my glider ever explodes for some reason, I can assure you it'll be the last one I ever make too. Scared the crap out of me.

As far as I'm concerned, my parachute is an overpriced cushion with an airworthiness certificate.

Chock

Glider he, had a flight with a glider ones (two sitter), absolutely fabulous.
You really feel like a bird.

The parachute jump was a tandem. Gift from my children for my 60 birthday. 300 feet free fall. A ones in a live time experience.

[geetrue]

You can't even see the runway in a DC-3, unless your landing. They were just eaiser to fix in those days before you needed
your own ET to figure out what was wrong ...

[Chock]

Platapus, try this site, it has a link to DC-3 flights and training..

http://www.centercomp.com/cgi-bin/dc3/gallery?720

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Chock

Platapus, try this site, it has a link to DC-3 flights and training..

http://www.centercomp.com/cgi-bin/dc3/gallery?720

Thank you! what a cool site.

who needs porn when I can see DC-3s!!!!!!

[SUBMAN1]

I read about how airlines outfit the aircraft - that is to a point only because the manufacturers have a selection. Boeing has theirs and Airbus has theirs. Otherwise you go custom interior which is not economical, so I don't want to hear that its the same between the two - it is not.

On another note, I read someone saying cockpit conformity across models in Airbus as a plus, but fails to mention that Boeing has been doing this same thing since the early 90's.

Probably my biggest complaint between Boeing and Airbus has to do with safety however. Airbus has hard set limiters on what you can and can't do with the aircraft. Boeing also has the same thing, but the end is where things are a major problem - Airbus will not let you ever exceed them given an emergency - if you are going to crash, and you go up against the limiters, you are going to die because that is all you get. Boeing however has a different philosophy - they also have this same limiters, but if its an all or nothing situation, Boeing aircraft allow the pilot to exceed them by using excessive force on the controls.

To me, this mentality by Airbus is an arrogant one to not give the pilot the final say.

-S

PS. Again I am sick after getting back off an airplane. Its like a recycled cigar tube of bacteria and viruses. Boeing and Airbus should find a way to address this issue. Last couple days had a temp of over 100 F.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Probably my biggest complaint between Boeing and Airbus has to do with safety however. Airbus has hard set limiters on what you can and can't do with the aircraft. Boeing also has the same thing, but the end is where things are a major problem - Airbus will not let you ever exceed them given an emergency - if you are going to crash, and you go up against the limiters, you are going to die because that is all you get. Boeing however has a different philosophy - they also have this same limiters, but if its an all or nothing situation, Boeing aircraft allow the pilot to exceed them by using excessive force on the controls.

Sounds sorta like F-16 vs. MiG-29

[HunterICX]

Mmm..

limiters ,

cant refer any situation where a boeing survived a crash by overrunning the set limiters.

if a airliner has a big problem and the only way the plane wants to go to is Down, you can pull as hard as you can on the sticks the plane will go down.

indeed I agree, the Airliners are the biggest threat for your own healthy especially as they dont refresh the air so much in the cabins. I had seen a documantary about this issue, and it made me wanna buy myself a gasmask for the next flight.
you just dont wanna know how unhealthy the air in the cabin is after a while flying at 10.000 meters. but still if you are perfectly healthy , you have a low risk of getting a fever

[gnirtS]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I read about how airlines outfit the aircraft - that is to a point only because the manufacturers have a selection. Boeing has theirs and Airbus has theirs. Otherwise you go custom interior which is not economical, so I don't want to hear that its the same between the two - it is not.

Bull****, its entire down to the airlines preference and ordering. There is no default interior. Every airline specifies exactly what they want. Thats how they budget for it and how they maintain conformity between the entire fleet.

On another note, I read someone saying cockpit conformity across models in Airbus as a plus, but fails to mention that Boeing has been doing this same thing since the early 90's.

So they both do it? Whats the issue? 757/767/777 yes. The 737 and others dont follow it.

Probably my biggest complaint between Boeing and Airbus has to do with safety however. Airbus has hard set limiters on what you can and can't do with the aircraft. Boeing also has the same thing, but the end is where things are a major problem - Airbus will not let you ever exceed them given an emergency - if you are going to crash, and you go up against the limiters, you are going to die because that is all you get. Boeing however has a different philosophy - they also have this same limiters, but if its an all or nothing situation, Boeing aircraft allow the pilot to exceed them by using excessive force on the controls.

Firstly lets see exactly how many incidents have happened due to that. Exactly zero. Seconly you appear blisfully unaware that hard limits arent a feature in the newer airbus aircraft.
You also appear to ignore the incidents where boeing planes have been damaged by flight crew accidentally taking the airframe over its limits which would not have occurred on an airbus. 737 and rudder reversal comes to mind a lot.

PS. Again I am sick after getting back off an airplane. Its like a recycled cigar tube of bacteria and viruses. Boeing and Airbus should find a way to address this issue. Last couple days had a temp of over 100 F.

Or work on your diet and general fitness. If aircraft made people sick every time they fly the world would have a real problem. HEPA filters and so on cut most of the bugs but at the end of the day its a confined space with 300 people on board just like a train, cinema, sports ground and so on. No way to avoid that without giving everyone their own little space suit.

[wireman]

737 rudder reversal had nothing to do with the built in limits you were refering to.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by gnirtS

Bull****, its entire down to the airlines preference and ordering. There is no default interior. Every airline specifies exactly what they want. Thats how they budget for it and how they maintain conformity between the entire fleet.

I've worked next to the Boeing interior design for nearly 5 years and Boeing's options are going to be different from Airbus's options. They make their own seats / interior's and no they are not the same. Matter of fact, new versions are even kept secret. Wait till you see the 787! I've seen things that are not yet released! I'll fly that aircraft every day of the week if I could!

So they both do it? Whats the issue? 757/767/777 yes. The 737 and others dont follow it.

Lets see here - 737/747 share, as well as the 757/767/777 share. The logic here? It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that if you are certified on one 737, it is a bad idea to change things around. So you really only need two cockpits - and of course, if all aircraft had been designed in the same period, this would have probably only been one.

This is all pointless though - you are still dealing with shared cockpit designs - where you have 2 total. Its not like the old days where each aircraft had its own! I remember those days.

Firstly lets see exactly how many incidents have happened due to that. Exactly zero. Seconly you appear blisfully unaware that hard limits arent a feature in the newer airbus aircraft.
You also appear to ignore the incidents where boeing planes have been damaged by flight crew accidentally taking the airframe over its limits which would not have occurred on an airbus. 737 and rudder reversal comes to mind a lot.

737 Rudder reversal can not be contributed to the pilots. Boeing denies this, but they need to face it. Period. The black boxes do not show pilot commanded input causing the problem (hydraulic issue?). There was one case of rocking by a pilot who liked to use hard rudder inputs for some unknown reason, but only one. Scratch that - just found it - it was an Airbus that he was flying and he snapped the rudder off. Sorry - my mistake. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inter...436374,00.html

Still the 737 is one of the safest airplanes to fly, with the 600 series and up showing only 0.14 fatal accidents per million takeoffs and landings - better than its Airbus counterparts, especially the A310 which has a score of 1.39. By the way, the only aircraft flying commercially even that has not only never killed anyone, but also never even had an incident like sliding off a runway is a 777.

Oh - On your hard limiter not causing crashes - Something to watch -

By the way, where is it said that they removed the hard limiters? I can find no evidence to support that claim.

Or work on your diet and general fitness. If aircraft made people sick every time they fly the world would have a real problem. HEPA filters and so on cut most of the bugs but at the end of the day its a confined space with 300 people on board just like a train, cinema, sports ground and so on. No way to avoid that without giving everyone their own little space suit.

Agreed - except the fitness part. Can't help the guy sitting next to you coughing up a storm! You sit there in the terminal and hope that guy doesn't sit next to you, and when he does... I guess it could be worse - It could be a 300 pounder who has to sit in the seat sideways!