Personal statement !

[GT182]

Tho I'm not a modder I can understand the concerns of JC, Kapt. L, Dowly and all the others that have brought us all the great mods and the GWX Expansion for SHIII. I've been away for a funeral and come back to see all this crap going on. Hmmm, is this Seawolves all over again as that's just what's happening. To those that have caused this, have some descency and respect for what others before you have done and give the proper credit where it's due. But above all ask permission first. You didn't spend the long hours putting in hard work, trial and error, nor your own personal feeling and touches to the mods you take and tear apart. Be careful messing with GWX as it will bite you in the a**, and all your work will be for nothing. It's that intricate and technical. Changing just one small thing can ruin many others, and the whole expansion mod it's self will be worthless when you finish mucking with it.

If JC leaves SS, I suppose many other modders will too eventually. I feel the death blow for GWX patches will be a certainty now, but hope that's not the case. I agree SS has gone downhill since SH4 came out and the caliber of a few new members too. I'm in shock at what's happening and I wouldn't expect it from members of this site. You know who you are, so be honest human beings, and quit the crap.

I suspect this thread will be closed just like the others that have legitimate gripes from honest people. Too close them only keeps the flames burning..... longer and hotter than ever. The fire will keep popping up and will spread like a wildfire. If all this isn't settled soon it will ruin things permanently for all and SS will become what the Ubi forums are now.... chaos. And I don't think Neal would take too kindly to that. He's put too much of his time, money and reputation into it to let that happen. If it weren't for him we'd have no place to do the things done for SHII and IV. So out of respect for him I ask that this be resolved by both sides in an agreeable friendly manner.

JC, stay around...we all need you and what you bring to SHIII and GWX.

At least my mom's funeral went better than what's going on here.

[Umfuld]

Originally Posted by GT182

I suspect this thread will be closed just like the others that have legitimate gripes from honest people.

Regardless of who or what, when or where, I'm glad threads are closed when they degrade into name calling.

The only time you notice the moderators here is when posts become unfriendly. And all they do is close the thread and say to take it up in private.

I for one am glad they do this.



This whole matter seems like a lot of unnecessary drama to me. I guess it's not about being part of a larger whole and making the game more enjoyable but rather about getting credit and control.
You're modding a game you don't own the rights to and posting the files on a message board viewable by anyone in the world with an internet connection.
No matter what you do after that you'll find you have little control over those files.

I really don't understand why you would want to prevent someone from doing further work on your mods. Whether you like the person or not. Whether you like what they do or not.


No offense friends, but if ego is the only motivating factor behind the work you do you can keep it to yourselves.

I'm off to learn how to mod Age of Empires II.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Umfuld

...but if ego is the only motivating factor behind the work you do you can keep it to yourselves.

I think there are lots of people who would like to think of it as being that simple... when really all that is expected is common courtesy.

Ask before you take... and recognize the creator(s).

Some may like to attach a nefarious "agenda" to discussions like these... but I will point out that SH3 was full of problems before modders went to work on it... without an SDK.

It isn't too much to ask... to leave that evidence in print with an attached readme.

Drama? No I think not... I do think the only ones screaming "foul" the loudest may have the most to hide.

If you can mod... you can take the time for the courtesy of asking permission to modify another's work if you intend to change and re-distribute it.

[Reece]

Even though we don't always see eye to eye Kap I do agree 100% with what you say.

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Umfuld

Regardless of who or what, when or where, I'm glad threads are closed when they degrade into name calling.

The only time you notice the moderators here is when posts become unfriendly. And all they do is close the thread and say to take it up in private.

I for one am glad they do this.



This whole matter seems like a lot of unnecessary drama to me. I guess it's not about being part of a larger whole and making the game more enjoyable but rather about getting credit and control.
You're modding a game you don't own the rights to and posting the files on a message board viewable by anyone in the world with an internet connection.
No matter what you do after that you'll find you have little control over those files.

I really don't understand why you would want to prevent someone from doing further work on your mods. Whether you like the person or not. Whether you like what they do or not.


No offense friends, but if ego is the only motivating factor behind the work you do you can keep it to yourselves.

Amen. Also, everyone knows who did GWX. There was a lot of praise going on in the forums for a long time - and still is - and those who don't know can only be people who don't read the forums - and those won't read the proposed modding "ethic" rules either and don't even care who did what.
Really, guys: If someone takes GWX 1.03, adds a new ship, re-releases it as GWX 2.0 and expects to get credit for that will only be laughed at by this community.

If someone uses something from GWX without crediting you, you can point this out in the forum if this bothers you and people will know. Those who are bothered by that, too, or care about ethics will then treat him accordingly, and those who don't, well, they don't. Frankly, you can't take an already copyrighted SHIII, make a big mod downloadable for it and then start telling people what they may or may not do with the game they bought. No one can, and demanding from the moderators here to modify their ban/suspend rules according to a ruleset proposed in one thread by one person (or team), and if they don't you act like you didn't get your candy only makes things look silly.
People know who did GWX, you left a big mark in subsim modding history with it and got praise for it. You expect to get anything more, you need to strike a deal with Ubisoft, make your mod copyrighted material and sell it.

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by heartc

......you need to strike a deal with Ubisoft, make your mod copyrighted material and sell it.

That will never happen. GWX was made by the people, for the people. END OF. Besides, I don't think Kpt.Lehmann wants the TAX man getting too greedy.:rotfl:

That said!

ENOUGH Do not let this thread go down the modding ethics/credits route, we have a specific thread for that.

This thread started with a respected member's personal view of the situation around here and a statement of his feelings. JC, I salute you. You wear your heart on your sleeve and you are not affraid to speak your mind. I wish more people here could articulate their feelings aswell as you. I also agree 110% with you.

I too, however, ask you to reconsider your decision. A dead man can't fight. You bring many wonderful things to this community and you will be sorely missed if you leave.

On the subject of support, this community is quick to pat joe bloggs on the back for a mod which improves their enjoyment of SH3 but is very slow in rallying when the chips are down. Regardless of whether you mod, play or lurk, you have an opinion, vote & a voice, USE THEM.

Now, my last words go to KL.

Sir, you are fully supported by myself and many silent others & I know it is an immense struggle for you to devote your time with these annoyances when you have better things to be doing. You are a one man army but your troops are beside you. You/we may be outnumbered but the values that you represent & defend will see us through. It is a nessecary evil that we must endure to see this community remain the best around. Be strong and stay your course, this squall will pass.

[Beltza]

JCWolf.

(You know my english is terrible, sorry)

We need people like you, all the community needs it. Subsim is a giant and is very difficult to maneuver. The only way fo all of us is to concentrate in our work, and not to watch what others are doing incorrectly.

But I'm agree with you. Neal and subsim would protect and prioritize what is from long time the real capital of subsim.

Un afectuoso saludo y mucho ánimo.

[Mancuso24]

JCWolf,

Works like GWX are the pillar of our communities and hundreds of your generous hours before the screen are the fuel that bring the sims to new quality levels. That must be understood by any staff. You -the original modders- are the ACE, those who can make things that look like magic for the rest of us. If you fall we all fall so in the 24th Flotilla we take care of our modders and make them feel as comfortable as we can, 'cause we actually appreciate you and your work, absolutely.

Do what you need to do to feel better for better times will come for sure.

[Backman]

We need you, JCWolf. Subsim needs you, GWX developers, You´ve reached a higher level in modding and without asking for anything in excahange. This is greatness...

The 24th Flotilla supports, guys.

Un abrazo, JCWolf. A ti y a todos quienes habeís convertido SH3 en lo que es hoy.

[fumblyoldcarpenter]

Originally Posted by Backman

We need you, JCWolf. Subsim needs you, GWX developers, You´ve reached a higher level in modding and without asking for anything in excahange. This is greatness...

jcwolf, I have seen your work, awsome stuff, great web-site as well GWX folks, great supermod. We need to support you jcwolf, and future modders as well. Down the road I see a SH4 supermod as well. It may very well be the work of new folks trying to get the most out of that game.

Only as a united community can we make the gaming experience and this site the best it can be. Hopefully you will stay jcwolf

fumbly

[ReallyDedPoet]

Stick around jcwolf, we need you

RDP