Personal statement !

Honesty......mmmmmMMM...okay, whats all the fuss about ? Mods are great, they really enhance the overall game, and in the case of SHIV actually fix the bloody thing. But a mod is a mod, its a modification that modifies or improves something. The author of the mod should surely get the credit they deserve but lets not get too emotional about it....its just a mod for a game. It has a certain shelf life. Sure some people are bound to use it withough knowing who wrote it, some people are bound to nick bits of it and use it in a new mod, some people will enhance it, some people will moan that it breaks their game. Who cares really ? When its first release to the community the author will get the credit they deserve from notable members of the community, after that its a bit of a free for all because thats the nature of the beast i'm afraid.

Seriously, I really can't understand the level of emotion attached to these mods, they're not living entities. If I produce a mod I do so because something annoys me and needs modding. If I release it to a community then I do so knowing that it will eventually get diluted and flushed down the toilet. I don't need any recognition, if you like it then use it, if not then dont.

I'm sure i'm gonna get flamed here but you asked for honesty and thats exactly what i'm doing. NVDRIFTER recently left this community, he's a great guy like REECE and JCWOLF. His concern was the nature of recent posts in this community. Sure some people's posts are, well, crap and inflamatory, but they're just the dribblings of faceless people. Just chose to ignore them. Any long term community member can easily recognise who are worthy posters and who are not, just filter the trash out.

Again, i'm sorry if i'm being a bit blunt here but this is a simple subsim community and thats all, its not some embodyment of fundamental democratic processes. Its a community of people from all walks of life whoc are interested in subs, who like to play sub games and thats about the size of it.

Less emotion and more modding please.

[vasmann]

Originally Posted by Uber Gruber

Honesty......mmmmmMMM...okay, whats all the fuss about ? Mods are great, they really enhance the overall game, and in the case of SHIV actually fix the bloody thing. But a mod is a mod, its a modification that modifies or improves something. The author of the mod should surely get the credit they deserve but lets not get too emotional about it....its just a mod for a game. It has a certain shelf life. Sure some people are bound to use it withough knowing who wrote it, some people are bound to nick bits of it and use it in a new mod, some people will enhance it, some people will moan that it breaks their game. Who cares really ? When its first release to the community the author will get the credit they deserve from notable members of the community, after that its a bit of a free for all because thats the nature of the beast i'm afraid.

Seriously, I really can't understand the level of emotion attached to these mods, they're not living entities. If I produce a mod I do so because something annoys me and needs modding. If I release it to a community then I do so knowing that it will eventually get diluted and flushed down the toilet. I don't need any recognition, if you like it then use it, if not then dont.

I'm sure i'm gonna get flamed here but you asked for honesty and thats exactly what i'm doing. NVDRIFTER recently left this community, he's a great guy like REECE and JCWOLF. His concern was the nature of recent posts in this community. Sure some people's posts are, well, crap and inflamatory, but they're just the dribblings of faceless people. Just chose to ignore them. Any long term community member can easily recognise who are worthy posters and who are not, just filter the trash out.

Again, i'm sorry if i'm being a bit blunt here but this is a simple subsim community and thats all, its not some embodyment of fundamental democratic processes. Its a community of people from all walks of life whoc are interested in subs, who like to play sub games and thats about the size of it.

Less emotion and more modding please.

Well, I can tell some thing :-), I am not modder, but I understand that for modder his mod it is not "just mod", this is:
- it's own spent time, this the time he/she could spend for his own life,
- this is his own thaughts and his point of view on the game, and we should to honor that
- this is the job he/she made to make OUR gaming fun and we should honor that.

Thank you modders for your great work. Shame on modders that don't credit and just steal other's work.

[joea]

Jcwolf, I have enjoyed your and your fellow modder's work and am really sorry to see you go! Please reconsider hate to see the good guys go away.

[Dowly]

When you spend ~2yrs of your free time to make 'just a mod', you tend to get a bit emotional over it.

And another thing that I'm ticked off is that first we got huge support from the community, but now people are trying to make us the bad guy and stab us in the back whenever they can.

[vasmann]

Originally Posted by Dowly

When you spend ~2yrs of your free time to make 'just a mod', you tend to get a bit emotional over it.

And another thing that I'm ticked off is that first we got huge support from the community, but now people are trying to make us the bad guy and stab us in the back whenever they can.

That's the problem. People take they want for free, and nothing pay for this (I don't mean money, simple thank you or notify in readme is great). People (not all) don't honor other's work and don't know what does it cost to other to make it, it just takes ready stuff - that he couldn't make himself, changes some minor thing and sais It is mine work. This is not correct and amoral. As for me like mod's user - I always read readme and interested how much people worked on mod. And always I can say "thank you guys for a great work", even if it takes 1kb on HDD :-))

[Reece]

Don't take it to heart Mr Wolf, the majority of people here have very good morals, the nasties are a minority, we certainly don't want to see the good ones, like yourself, to leave or SS could possably take a dive for the worse!

NVDRIFTER recently left this community, he's a great guy like REECE and JCWOLF.

Gosh Uber .... I think ... I think ... I'm gonna cry!! Sniff Sniff!!
Now Mr Wolf, back to modding, If you have SHIV but love SHIII we could certainly use your help/opinions etc here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=114596&page=2
I think this could be something really great, but have come accross a few problems already.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Reece

Don't take it to heart Mr Wolf, the majority of people here have very good morals, the nasties are a minority, we certainly don't want to see the good ones, like yourself, to leave or SS could possibly take a dive for the worse!

That's true...
Now, what I'm going to say is simple : you have your own conception (and I've the same) of the SubSim community, something like "We're all here to help each other at modding something/supporting other SS members who have to face problems in real life", just as a "Band of Brothers".

In fact, what KL has said is true :

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

I think you wear that sig because you have experienced a spirit of "crew" that cannot be built. It either happens... or it does not happen.

Understanding that spirit of "crew" means that some days your brother helps you stand up... and some days you help him stand up.

Let them hurl their insults and scorn. Let them come. Let them do their worst. Things will change for the better because we will make them change.

JC, if you want to keep alive this way of thinking/living among us, it's definitelyin your hands...

A friend is a person you know well and regard with affection and trust... And the difference between a true and a false friend, is that a real one can stay with us in a moment of grief. True friends make all the difference in the world.
Now, I think I've said all I want to say, and you have for sure the freedom to do what you want, but I think leaving us now is to go against your friendship principles.

Very respectfully yours,

Alex

[JCWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitman

JCwolf,

I can understand well a part of your feelings. But I think it is a fair point to say that subsim forums are not intended be used as a plagiarism prosecutor. This is your home, same as many people's, but it is not a court. You will receive support and encouragement as well as recognizement from the community if your mods get stolen and/or copied, but pretending that the subsim staff gets officially involved in continuous prosecution of cheat-modders is not reasonable. And besides, a guy can have a nick here and behave properly while having another nick elsewhere and go around copying things and offering them in other communities. What would be the next step? Should then Neal Stevens ask personally the webmasters or moderators of those webs to shut the guy because he is copying a mod by a subsim member? What if they are then included by someone a la X1 in a commercial DVD? Does Neal then go and sue them in the real courts?

One thing must be very clear to you: The fact that subsim host these forums and appreciates your work and the work from many modders does not mean it shall get officially and permanently involved in prosecution or punishment of such actions, nor does it mean doing so is letting you down. The community has a gratitude debt with you and the GWX team, same as with many other modders. But Subsim.com is not in debt with you or the GWX team personally, instead it is quite the opposite. We all are in debt with subsim.com for hosting these forums and providing such a blossoming environment for us all, at a cost that exceeds hundreds of dollars a month and much more hundreds of hours of Neal's spare time.

Subsim.com has no obligation to enforce modder's ethic codes, and no one shall feel let down not to receive such support from subsim.com. Period.

Stay here, we all apreciate your work.

I understand your point of view Hitman,
but let me clear what real troubles me,

I know that SS and is work group can't
go or lead pssible "Tomb Raiders" suposed
modders or fiction ones to court, and thats not
what I have ment when said what I posted,
I really ment that this is a forum were, like other
users in here say, is used by loads of all over
the world users, ok everyone understands that,
but What about SS protecting the users that
really make this forum work and develop into
the huge recognition that really haves today...

Brother, if you have a guy at your company (example)
that is releasing a new concept Tool or what ever
would you not protect that release and attack or
defend it against possible" Tomb Raiders" that would
copy it and by introducing some slight changes
release it again elsewere as their own work???:hmm:

I would!

This is what I have ment, I think SS as to get wet some
times and defend the truthfull creator Ingenuity and
the guy that creats something from scratch or from the
original SH files, not from others hard work and mostly
without even ask to do it, we no its free, but that
is certanly not the right excuse to Hijack it and
certanly not the excuse to rename it and repost it
elsewere as a new work!!!

I know you ment well with your post, and generaly
I have not even a single complain about the SS
stuff members or Neal or this forum...

But someone haves to remind everyone here about
the lost of genuine work protection and about some
forgoten moral that makes us follow the real goal
here, that is creat Mods and make this place more
and more unique as it is , this is the time to decide
if we will fight against the commom opportunity
seacker that only comes here to spread desagreement
and doesn't really brings nothing new then forum
argueing and division...

Thanks for the words Hitman, you're a truthful gent.!

Originally Posted by Uber Gruber

Honesty......mmmmmMMM...okay, whats all the fuss about ? Mods are great, they really enhance the overall game, and in the case of SHIV actually fix the bloody thing. But a mod is a mod, its a modification that modifies or improves something. The author of the mod should surely get the credit they deserve but lets not get too emotional about it....its just a mod for a game. It has a certain shelf life. Sure some people are bound to use it withough knowing who wrote it, some people are bound to nick bits of it and use it in a new mod, some people will enhance it, some people will moan that it breaks their game. Who cares really ? When its first release to the community the author will get the credit they deserve from notable members of the community, after that its a bit of a free for all because thats the nature of the beast i'm afraid.

Seriously, I really can't understand the level of emotion attached to these mods, they're not living entities. If I produce a mod I do so because something annoys me and needs modding. If I release it to a community then I do so knowing that it will eventually get diluted and flushed down the toilet. I don't need any recognition, if you like it then use it, if not then dont.

I'm sure i'm gonna get flamed here but you asked for honesty and thats exactly what i'm doing. NVDRIFTER recently left this community, he's a great guy like REECE and JCWOLF. His concern was the nature of recent posts in this community. Sure some people's posts are, well, crap and inflamatory, but they're just the dribblings of faceless people. Just chose to ignore them. Any long term community member can easily recognise who are worthy posters and who are not, just filter the trash out.

Again, i'm sorry if i'm being a bit blunt here but this is a simple subsim community and thats all, its not some embodyment of fundamental democratic processes. Its a community of people from all walks of life whoc are interested in subs, who like to play sub games and thats about the size of it.

Less emotion and more modding please.

I ask everybody here to not make of this thread a insult playground,
I know you mean well mate, and I'm preaty sure you will not be flamed
just cause you have speacked your thoughts or mind,

But this is not a state, I mean like California, Texas, a state,
this is a forum, and in any forum, you have to go by his own
rules or guide lines, I was getting to a sensation here that
there was none, due to what happend recently with some
threads, opened by some of the most respected and hard
working guys this community ever had, jus to pin point some facts
and others to pin point some injustices that were flying
on our place ...

You nust bellieve in something in order to fight and defend it,
As I did in my past , in other things and situations I felt
this as to be defended also...
I know every time a new Sim from SH comes out a wave
of incomming new guys pop in the forum and I think
it is healthy that this happend, what I do not agree
and for sure will fight against is that "we" allow
some "Punk" actitude and bad behavior against the
allready here ones...

I do not want to descourage new blood modders,
but I want these guys to understand the road
they are choosing to go and if I can help them
on that road I will, but also I am a huge fun of
everi single modder that is here for a load of
time working and sharing is good will with us
and I think we have the right to protect them all...

I guess this is a matter of hart or not,
I am what I am, and I think respect and loyalty
are very important things as long they are
understood!