TV Tip for our British friends: Scientology and Me

Skybird · 05-13-07, 12:01 PM

I don't care if hubbard'S SF novel is entertaining or not. the crimes against living people commited by his organization, the psychological submission and exploitation, the abuse of man, the intended deformation of minds, the killing of free will and freedom, the criminal ways of money-accumulation and money-laundring, the ways of sinking into industrial, economical and political hierarchies and decision-making structures to establish scientology there to give them more and more influence to exploit business and industry for their hunger for powe,r and give them the ability to influence education and forming of social structures - this is the thing that counts, this is what they are aiming at.

Your attempt to put it into relation is very misleading, and dangerous, Chock. You want to add a more balanced view to it, but I tell you there is nothing worth to be seen in a "balanced" way, as you understand it. You can't talk it less dangerous, and more nicely, sometimes this is simply not possible with certain things. This is simply sick, criminal, abusive, inhumane. Some kinds of things simply are not to be tolerated, simply that. This is in no way a "religion" that can claim the constitution's protection for freedom of religious practicing. It is a criminal organization, and it does massive damage to people, and exploits the weak ones. Note that throughout europe political verdicts as well as court rulings made it clear that it is no religion in the understanding of European laws. also note that you need to pay them the more money in order to get access to the higher glories and teachings. How altruistic and religiously motivated can that be?

What you said about Hubbard's background in parts I did not know (his navy background), but judging by the damage he already has caused I wished that he would have been locked up in a psychiatry where he probably would have belonged. Hubbard'S biography doesn't make today's scientology any less angerous. they are especially going for the children, the juveniles, and the rich and very influential ones. what they are doing is modern psychological techniques of brainwashing, remote-controlled self-regulation of the subject's mind, using mobbing-like and self-exposing techniques of implying pressure, and creating dependency on the authority of superiors, and the anonymous auhtoirty of the group. The individuality of individuals gets destroyed, and they are being turned into drones instead.

And no excitement in reading Hubbard's SF novel changes a bit in that.

cobalt · 05-13-07, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

the crimes against living people commited by his organization, the psychological submission and exploitation, the abuse of man, the intended deformation of minds, the killing of free will and freedom, the criminal ways of money-accumulation and money-laundring, the ways of sinking into industrial, economical and political hierarchies and decision-making structures to establish scientology there to give them more and more influence to exploit business and industry for their hunger for powe,r and give them the ability to influence education and forming of social structures - this is the thing that counts, this is what they are aiming at.

sounds like christianity

Chock · 05-13-07, 01:51 PM

I'm not trying to apologise for it or balance it any more than I would any other subject Skybird, if you notice the second paragraph of my reply to your post, you'll see I state broad agreement with your position. I'm just saying that people ought to not simply accept your opening post without finding out about things for themselves.

I'd make the same statement about anything, whether it was religion or who makes the best chocolate cake. Since when has advocating finding things out for yourself been misleading and dangerous thing to do? At least my post mentions anti submarine operations in WW2, so it has more to do with subsim than some of the other replies

One can only assume that by placing your original post in a forum, you are inviting discussion. That's what a forum is for. If you don't want to invite discussion, print up your views on leaflets and distribute them in the street.

By the way, if you want a good laugh, go on YouTube and do a search for 'Message from Xenu' - it says more about Scientology than this discussion probably ever will, and it's quite heartening to see some of the comments from people on that particular clip.

p.s. you can download some Volcano scenery and a freeware DC-8 at www.avsim.com

Hail Xenu!

Skybird · 05-13-07, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chock

I'm not trying to apologise for it or balance it any more than I would any other subject Skybird, if you notice the second paragraph of my reply to your post, you'll see I state broad agreement with your position. I'm just saying that people ought to not simply accept your opening post without finding out about things for themselves.

I'd make the same statement about anything, whether it was religion or who makes the best chocolate cake. Since when has advocating finding things out for yourself been misleading and dangerous thing to do? At least my post mentions anti submarine operations in WW2, so it has more to do with subsim than some of the other replies

One can only assume that by placing your original post in a forum, you are inviting discussion. That's what a forum is for. If you don't want to invite discussion, print up your views on leaflets and distribute them in the street.

By the way, if you want a good laugh, go on YouTube and do a search for 'Message from Xenu' - it says more about Scientology than this discussion probably ever will, and it's quite heartening to see some of the comments from people on that particular clip.

p.s. you can download some Volcano scenery and a freeware DC-8 at www.avsim.com

Hail Xenu!

Well maybe I got your tone a bit queer then, sorry. Once I have identified a valid target and managed to get a good range to it I tend to become a bit tunnelviewed...

BTW, I am surporised that the discussion is even here (we had this scientology debate once or twice in the last two years). The BBC link I gave just included a broadcasting date at the end - as the thread title says, that was the info i primarily wanted to give.

Fish · 05-13-07, 01:54 PM

ARE THINGS BEING HIDDEN FROM YOU?

If you are reading this, you quite possibly are considering joining Scientology or you are "in" Scientology, but have come to the realization that there MUST be more to it. Guess what? You're right!

If you're in, you have experienced people you love and respect being declared SP (an enemy of Scientology). I know, as I'm now one of them, and I was a member in great standing for 30 years.

For those unfamiliar with this term, SP stands for "Suppressive Person." Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was always fighting hidden "enemies" and once he decided they were "bad" (usually because they thought differently than he did, or disagreed with him or his policies) he would literally "declare" them SP. A declaration was officially written by top executives, put on a goldenrod-colored piece of paper and distributed throughout Scientology.

On this "SP declare" would be a list of the "crimes" this person had supposedly committed. Once you are declared SP, just to give you an idea of the extent of this, NO ONE within Scientology can or will speak with you, except for one person, the International Justice Chief. (Once I was declared, even this person refused to speak with me, which violates their own policy).

While "in," I was told of all the "bad" things various "SPs" had done. Once out, I have met most of them, and of course their own stories are dramatically different, and one quickly realizes the lies Scientology has told. My "SP declare" is filled with lies. Hubbard said re his supposed enemies, "If you cannot find bad things someone did, make them up."

One by one, these people have stories to tell of how they believed Scientology was _____ and it turned out it just isn't! For many, it was the management. For others, it was Scientology "technology." For many also, it was Hubbard. Many have been lied to, betrayed, abused, deceived, etc. These are common denominators for people who woke up finally, and after years of trying to fix it, they realized (as I did) that Scientology just wasn't up for fixing!

Have things been hidden from you? The best way to find out is to read the many websites, with the facts and experiences on them. Also, there are videos at http://www.xenutv.com where people who did most or all of the Bridge are speaking out.

Good luck to you! I cannot repeat often enough what my friend, Andreas, said to me, nearly 4 years ago now: FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Don't take my word for it, or anyone else's. Study up, learn, read, put it together.

Good luck to you!
My very best to all who care,

http://www.xenu.net/

Skybird · 05-13-07, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt

sounds like christianity

Or to be more precise - sounds like church policies. As far as I am aware of the gospels, Jesus has not taught comparable things.

Tchocky · 05-13-07, 03:15 PM

Apologies for posting from the Daily Mail, but it seems that this is causing quite the fuss

Travolta heads Scientology campaign to block BBC expose

05-13-07, 04:36 PM

Quote:

BTW, I am surporised that the discussion is even here (we had this scientology debate once or twice in the last two years).

How are you suprised? You, Skybird, started the thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How more disingenuous can you be? You are an avowed athiest and from the look of this thread a religious persecutor as well. You and your like are the very heart of the demon which enbodies what mankind must resist. Hate because of ignorance. Now I know why your government regularly deny speach freedoms for your countrymen.

What I get from this thread is that Scientology is the new boogeyman which supplants the Jew. I for one am calling you out and asking what is the difference between what yo are saying and what the NAZIs said in 1933. We have seen this before from Germans. You and your ilk are on a slippery slope to banning all religion.

Your behavior disgusts me. Freedom of worship is just as important as freedom not to worship.

05-13-07, 12:01 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,654 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I don't care if hubbard'S SF novel is entertaining or not. the crimes against living people commited by his organization, the psychological submission and exploitation, the abuse of man, the intended deformation of minds, the killing of free will and freedom, the criminal ways of money-accumulation and money-laundring, the ways of sinking into industrial, economical and political hierarchies and decision-making structures to establish scientology there to give them more and more influence to exploit business and industry for their hunger for powe,r and give them the ability to influence education and forming of social structures - this is the thing that counts, this is what they are aiming at. Your attempt to put it into relation is very misleading, and dangerous, Chock. You want to add a more balanced view to it, but I tell you there is nothing worth to be seen in a "balanced" way, as you understand it. You can't talk it less dangerous, and more nicely, sometimes this is simply not possible with certain things. This is simply sick, criminal, abusive, inhumane. Some kinds of things simply are not to be tolerated, simply that. This is in no way a "religion" that can claim the constitution's protection for freedom of religious practicing. It is a criminal organization, and it does massive damage to people, and exploits the weak ones. Note that throughout europe political verdicts as well as court rulings made it clear that it is no religion in the understanding of European laws. also note that you need to pay them the more money in order to get access to the higher glories and teachings. How altruistic and religiously motivated can that be? What you said about Hubbard's background in parts I did not know (his navy background), but judging by the damage he already has caused I wished that he would have been locked up in a psychiatry where he probably would have belonged. Hubbard'S biography doesn't make today's scientology any less angerous. they are especially going for the children, the juveniles, and the rich and very influential ones. what they are doing is modern psychological techniques of brainwashing, remote-controlled self-regulation of the subject's mind, using mobbing-like and self-exposing techniques of implying pressure, and creating dependency on the authority of superiors, and the anonymous auhtoirty of the group. The individuality of individuals gets destroyed, and they are being turned into drones instead. And no excitement in reading Hubbard's SF novel changes a bit in that. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-13-07, 03:15 PM	#7
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Apologies for posting from the Daily Mail, but it seems that this is causing quite the fuss Travolta heads Scientology campaign to block BBC expose __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

05-13-07, 01:51 PM	#3
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm not trying to apologise for it or balance it any more than I would any other subject Skybird, if you notice the second paragraph of my reply to your post, you'll see I state broad agreement with your position. I'm just saying that people ought to not simply accept your opening post without finding out about things for themselves. I'd make the same statement about anything, whether it was religion or who makes the best chocolate cake. Since when has advocating finding things out for yourself been misleading and dangerous thing to do? At least my post mentions anti submarine operations in WW2, so it has more to do with subsim than some of the other replies One can only assume that by placing your original post in a forum, you are inviting discussion. That's what a forum is for. If you don't want to invite discussion, print up your views on leaflets and distribute them in the street. By the way, if you want a good laugh, go on YouTube and do a search for 'Message from Xenu' - it says more about Scientology than this discussion probably ever will, and it's quite heartening to see some of the comments from people on that particular clip. p.s. you can download some Volcano scenery and a freeware DC-8 at www.avsim.com Hail Xenu!

05-13-07, 01:54 PM	#5
Fish Eternal Patrol Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,923 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	ARE THINGS BEING HIDDEN FROM YOU? If you are reading this, you quite possibly are considering joining Scientology or you are "in" Scientology, but have come to the realization that there MUST be more to it. Guess what? You're right! If you're in, you have experienced people you love and respect being declared SP (an enemy of Scientology). I know, as I'm now one of them, and I was a member in great standing for 30 years. For those unfamiliar with this term, SP stands for "Suppressive Person." Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was always fighting hidden "enemies" and once he decided they were "bad" (usually because they thought differently than he did, or disagreed with him or his policies) he would literally "declare" them SP. A declaration was officially written by top executives, put on a goldenrod-colored piece of paper and distributed throughout Scientology. On this "SP declare" would be a list of the "crimes" this person had supposedly committed. Once you are declared SP, just to give you an idea of the extent of this, NO ONE within Scientology can or will speak with you, except for one person, the International Justice Chief. (Once I was declared, even this person refused to speak with me, which violates their own policy). While "in," I was told of all the "bad" things various "SPs" had done. Once out, I have met most of them, and of course their own stories are dramatically different, and one quickly realizes the lies Scientology has told. My "SP declare" is filled with lies. Hubbard said re his supposed enemies, "If you cannot find bad things someone did, make them up." One by one, these people have stories to tell of how they believed Scientology was _____ and it turned out it just isn't! For many, it was the management. For others, it was Scientology "technology." For many also, it was Hubbard. Many have been lied to, betrayed, abused, deceived, etc. These are common denominators for people who woke up finally, and after years of trying to fix it, they realized (as I did) that Scientology just wasn't up for fixing! Have things been hidden from you? The best way to find out is to read the many websites, with the facts and experiences on them. Also, there are videos at http://www.xenutv.com where people who did most or all of the Bridge are speaking out. Good luck to you! I cannot repeat often enough what my friend, Andreas, said to me, nearly 4 years ago now: FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Don't take my word for it, or anyone else's. Study up, learn, read, put it together. Good luck to you! My very best to all who care, http://www.xenu.net/