SH4 VS Sh3 - Page 2

JU_88 · 05-08-07, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbo180265

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

I hate to say this but -
In my opinion, anyone who boycotts SHIV because its not their chosen theatre - is shooting them selves in the foot.

In a way we owe it to ourselves to go out and purchase SHIV weather we like the Pacific or not, as the sales figures for SHIV will likely seal the fate of the SH franchise. In short, if SHIV is a commercial flop then dont expect Ubi to green light SHV.
In time im sure we will get to return to the atlantic, but only if we can continue to fuel this niche market in a world ruled by first person shooters.

Its not like you can afford to be picky when it comes to subsims anyway.

Whilst I see your point, I am in no way going to run out and buy a half finished game, especially in a theater I'm not at all interested in just to prolong the life of half finished subsims. If Ubisoft had done the magic with SHIV then yes,I'd say your argument holds water,and in all honesty I'd probably buy it(and I still might,in a few years time,when it's been supermodded and the various problems with it are sorted)

But not at the moment matey, I'm happy where I am - NW of Lisbon,ducking air attacks in my IXC

Yeah but half finnished subsims are better than nothing, Agreed, we can mod the hell out of a half finnished game, but we cant mod a game that doesnt exist!
In 2009 I think most of us would rather be playing SH5 not Quake5

All im saying is look an SH4 purchase as a long term thing, it will be great when it gets a super mod AND think of it as an investment in the SH Franchise in general, rather than just paying for a one off game.
Its a catch 22,
If there is more support for ' the half finnished subsims' then developers might be allowed bigger rescources and budget to make more complete titles.
the moment we just refuse to by half finnished subsims (an already risky venture for any publisher) - we are bascially sentencing the genre to death.

Ducimus · 05-08-07, 07:59 PM

JU_88 does have a point.
In this list, how many sub sims do you see, and how many are recent games?
http://www.subsim.com/subsim_reviews_index.html

Now, what were the 3 (edit 4) most recent sub games?

# Silent Hunter I, realeased in 1996
# Silent Hunter II, sequel released in 2001.
# Silent Hunter III, sequel released in 2005.
# Silent Hunter 4, released in March 2007

Nobody else is making them. Probably because nobody else wants to, because theres more money to be made in other game genre's. Money is ultimatly the bottom line, its why companies exist.

JU_88 · 05-08-07, 08:04 PM

Yep, If we want to continue to feed our virtual submarine addictions - we need to be looking at the bigger picture.
We are treading on thin ice here.... look at what happened to Tank sims.

Ducimus · 05-08-07, 08:13 PM

What tank sim's?

JU_88 · 05-08-07, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

What tank sim's?

Exactly!!

Reece · 05-08-07, 08:37 PM

I have purchased SH4 when it first came out, tried with stock & 1.01, but totally disapointed, it should never have been released in that state & although I can see the reasons for people not wanting to upset UBI, I can understand others venting their frustrations, to a majority of purchasers US$50, I paid AU$100, is a lot of money!!

I find it to be unplayable in it's present condition, have shelved it, not taken it back in the hope that a future patch & community effort will fix it, not to mention the problems I keep getting with securom, worse than starforce ..... Ahhh!

Well, back to SHIII & loving it!

joea · 05-08-07, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

What tank sim's?

Exactly!!

We got at least one coming this year..."T-34 vs. Tiger" and of course Steel Beasts.

BTW these threads are useless IMO.

joea · 05-08-07, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

I have purchased SH4 when it first came out, tried with stock & 1.01, but totally disapointed, it should never have been released in that state & although I can see the reasons for people not wanting to upset UBI, I can understand others venting their frustrations, to a majority of purchasers US$50, I paid AU$100, is a lot of money!!

I find it to be unplayable in it's present condition, have shelved it, not taken it back in the hope that a future patch & community effort will fix it, not to mention the problems I keep getting with securom, worse than starforce ..... Ahhh!

Well, back to SHIII & loving it!

A lot of people have no problems with it and there are already mods, I see you didn't even try patch 1.2 so how do you know it is unplayable???

Chock · 05-08-07, 09:21 PM

I'm not a massive fan of the Pacific Theatre as a basis for sub sims (or should that be Theater?

), I think that the Atlantic sub battle was simply more interesting, but it should come as no surprise that many (particularly) Americans will prefer a Pacific campaign, and I daresay they will think the Atlantic sub battle was the boring one.

Maybe I just like playing the underdogs and bad guys in a sim; I suspect that if you could be a Japanese sub driver I'd find SH4 more fun, I always seem to end up driving the Akula in Dangerous Waters even though I know the Yank subs are better!

Think of it like this: Everyone knows the Nazis were nasty and they deserved to get their arses kicked, but ask an actor if they'd like to play a Gestapo Officer and they'll be falling over themselves in the rush to try the uniform on (Hardly surprising when you consider that many of the German uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss). There is a mystique about the Third Reich that just isn't there in much of the Allied stuff. Like the movies, the bad guys are always the coolest - a lot the bad guy's equipment in Star Wars is based on WW2 German equipment or derivatives of it, for example.

Nevertheless, regardless of what it features, a submarine sim will always interest me, and I do like SH4, particularly since I've not had many of the problems lots of other people seem to be having. At least with SH4, you get to be on the winning side!

Regardless of whether you prefer the Atlantic or the Pacific, there's no denying that some of SH4 is sloppy work, which probably doesn't help endear it to many players. Much of it is just rehashed from SH3, in some cases, with no attempt to even bother renaming files, i.e the Japanese aircraft using sound files for bf-109s and Ju-87s. But then again, there are some elements of SH4 that are vast improvements too, so SH4 certainly has the potential to be a much better sim than SH3, and I'm sure it eventually will be just that.

Give SH4 some time, after all, we're all doing exactly that with SH3.

Now, where's my German hat...

Ducimus · 05-08-07, 09:36 PM

I think people naturally prefer the theater which is closest to home, and/or the theater their home nation was most involved in.

The atlantic has one thing going for it. A good movie. If Das boot never existed, i think alot of people who prefer the atlantic would be more ambivalent in their theater preference, or would default to the one closest to home.

Chock · 05-08-07, 09:55 PM

If the movie preference reasons are true, and Das Boot hooks the SH3 fans, with Run Silent, Run Deep hooking the SH4 fans, perhaps we could create a mod called 'Silent Hunter Three and a Half'? That would please everyone!

We could base it on U-571 and Lorelei: The Witch of the Pacific...

Erm... hang on a minute...no that wouldn't work would it? They're the two worst sub movies ever. It would require us to take the least likeable elements from both SH3 and SH4 and combine them

Oh well, another mod idea bites the dust!

Ducimus · 05-08-07, 10:21 PM

While i know your being sarchastic, you really can't compare "Run silent run deep" and "Das boot". I mean, your average joe walks into a video store, and is looking to watch a war movie, and see's the two boxes sitting side by side on the shelf, which looks more appealing? The color movie, digitally remastered with surround sound on dvd or some old black and white movie with actors only grandparents could appreciate on VHS?

No contest!

Kpt. Lehmann · 05-08-07, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I think people naturally prefer the theater which is closest to home, and/or the theater their home nation was most involved in.

The atlantic has one thing going for it. A good movie. If Das boot never existed, i think alot of people who prefer the atlantic would be more ambivalent in their theater preference, or would default to the one closest to home.

This crap is just going too far.

Sigh. YEs yessss yesss Ducimus we have been made painfully aware how "burned out" you are on U-boats etc etc etc etc etc.

Speaking for myself (and I imagine quite a few others) I preferred U-boats before I ever saw Das Boot.

I'm an American. Pacific stuff just doesn't have the appeal for me that ETO stuff does. That doesn't make me some sort of mutant... or change my political alignment.

In a perfect world, we could choose our theater and sub of choice within the simulator. For now we cannot... and you even resist the idea of such a thing anyway.

Relax. Go enjoy SH4 and don't worry about what everybody else feels or is doing. Why should it even matter to you? You get so bent out of shape about this Atlantic versus Pacific thing that its really starting to look juvenile.

Christ man, no one is going to come and take your Fleet Boats or your favorite theater away.

Ducimus · 05-08-07, 10:40 PM

KL, your over reacting to a mere observation, no more no less, why so defensive? I can only guess becuse your forum handle is derived from a das boot influence. Thats not a stab either, just something i noticed years ago. Hell, modding SH3, it was all about getting those "das boot moments", so dont tell me a movie has nothing to do with it. :rotfl:

So i still maintain my observation. If das boat was never made, i really dont think the atlantic would be as popular as it is here. In all truthfulness, if i hadnt read the amount of material i did years ago, i wouldnt have an iota of intrest in the pacific theater either. Not everyone reads up like that, and a movie is much easier to absorb.

Kpt. Lehmann · 05-08-07, 10:42 PM

Addenda:

I'm betting a dollar that SH4 will do at least as good in sales as SH3 for the simple fact that it will be a big draw in the U.S. as compared to U-boats anyway.

I'd say most people here have bought a copy "for the sake of the devs" ... I did.

05-08-07, 08:37 PM	#21
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,946 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	I have purchased SH4 when it first came out, tried with stock & 1.01, but totally disapointed, it should never have been released in that state & although I can see the reasons for people not wanting to upset UBI, I can understand others venting their frustrations, to a majority of purchasers US$50, I paid AU$100, is a lot of money!! I find it to be unplayable in it's present condition, have shelved it, not taken it back in the hope that a future patch & community effort will fix it, not to mention the problems I keep getting with securom, worse than starforce ..... Ahhh! Well, back to SHIII & loving it! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

05-08-07, 10:42 PM	#30
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 7,011 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	Addenda: I'm betting a dollar that SH4 will do at least as good in sales as SH3 for the simple fact that it will be a big draw in the U.S. as compared to U-boats anyway. I'd say most people here have bought a copy "for the sake of the devs" ... I did. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

05-08-07, 07:59 PM	#17
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	JU_88 does have a point. In this list, how many sub sims do you see, and how many are recent games? http://www.subsim.com/subsim_reviews_index.html Now, what were the 3 (edit 4) most recent sub games? # Silent Hunter I, realeased in 1996 # Silent Hunter II, sequel released in 2001. # Silent Hunter III, sequel released in 2005. # Silent Hunter 4, released in March 2007 Nobody else is making them. Probably because nobody else wants to, because theres more money to be made in other game genre's. Money is ultimatly the bottom line, its why companies exist.

05-08-07, 08:04 PM	#18
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,837 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Yep, If we want to continue to feed our virtual submarine addictions - we need to be looking at the bigger picture. We are treading on thin ice here.... look at what happened to Tank sims.

05-08-07, 08:13 PM	#19
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	What tank sim's?

05-08-07, 09:21 PM	#24
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm not a massive fan of the Pacific Theatre as a basis for sub sims (or should that be Theater? ), I think that the Atlantic sub battle was simply more interesting, but it should come as no surprise that many (particularly) Americans will prefer a Pacific campaign, and I daresay they will think the Atlantic sub battle was the boring one. Maybe I just like playing the underdogs and bad guys in a sim; I suspect that if you could be a Japanese sub driver I'd find SH4 more fun, I always seem to end up driving the Akula in Dangerous Waters even though I know the Yank subs are better! Think of it like this: Everyone knows the Nazis were nasty and they deserved to get their arses kicked, but ask an actor if they'd like to play a Gestapo Officer and they'll be falling over themselves in the rush to try the uniform on (Hardly surprising when you consider that many of the German uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss). There is a mystique about the Third Reich that just isn't there in much of the Allied stuff. Like the movies, the bad guys are always the coolest - a lot the bad guy's equipment in Star Wars is based on WW2 German equipment or derivatives of it, for example. Nevertheless, regardless of what it features, a submarine sim will always interest me, and I do like SH4, particularly since I've not had many of the problems lots of other people seem to be having. At least with SH4, you get to be on the winning side! Regardless of whether you prefer the Atlantic or the Pacific, there's no denying that some of SH4 is sloppy work, which probably doesn't help endear it to many players. Much of it is just rehashed from SH3, in some cases, with no attempt to even bother renaming files, i.e the Japanese aircraft using sound files for bf-109s and Ju-87s. But then again, there are some elements of SH4 that are vast improvements too, so SH4 certainly has the potential to be a much better sim than SH3, and I'm sure it eventually will be just that. Give SH4 some time, after all, we're all doing exactly that with SH3. Now, where's my German hat...

05-08-07, 09:36 PM	#25
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I think people naturally prefer the theater which is closest to home, and/or the theater their home nation was most involved in. The atlantic has one thing going for it. A good movie. If Das boot never existed, i think alot of people who prefer the atlantic would be more ambivalent in their theater preference, or would default to the one closest to home.

05-08-07, 09:55 PM	#26
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If the movie preference reasons are true, and Das Boot hooks the SH3 fans, with Run Silent, Run Deep hooking the SH4 fans, perhaps we could create a mod called 'Silent Hunter Three and a Half'? That would please everyone! We could base it on U-571 and Lorelei: The Witch of the Pacific... Erm... hang on a minute...no that wouldn't work would it? They're the two worst sub movies ever. It would require us to take the least likeable elements from both SH3 and SH4 and combine them Oh well, another mod idea bites the dust!

05-08-07, 10:21 PM	#27
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	While i know your being sarchastic, you really can't compare "Run silent run deep" and "Das boot". I mean, your average joe walks into a video store, and is looking to watch a war movie, and see's the two boxes sitting side by side on the shelf, which looks more appealing? The color movie, digitally remastered with surround sound on dvd or some old black and white movie with actors only grandparents could appreciate on VHS? No contest!

05-08-07, 10:40 PM	#29
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	KL, your over reacting to a mere observation, no more no less, why so defensive? I can only guess becuse your forum handle is derived from a das boot influence. Thats not a stab either, just something i noticed years ago. Hell, modding SH3, it was all about getting those "das boot moments", so dont tell me a movie has nothing to do with it. :rotfl: So i still maintain my observation. If das boat was never made, i really dont think the atlantic would be as popular as it is here. In all truthfulness, if i hadnt read the amount of material i did years ago, i wouldnt have an iota of intrest in the pacific theater either. Not everyone reads up like that, and a movie is much easier to absorb.