Why Didn't Anybody Tell Me!?

Originally Posted by Letum

England is a country in Great Britain.
Great Britain is a island in the British Isles.
(most of) The British Isles are Primary territories of the United Kingdom.
The United Kingdom is a country and sovereign state.
British Overseas Territories are territories of the United Kingdom out side of the British Isles.

He who comes from England is English and British.
He who comes from Scotland is Scottish and British.
He who comes from the United kingdom, but is not in the British Isles is in British Overseas Territories and may also call himself "British".

Simple, Right?

So that I might get it straight. You are a citizen of the United Kingdom, the state, but you are an Englishman by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

How many others are like you? The Scotts are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Scotts by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

The Irish are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Irish by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

The Welsh are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Welsh by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

Is this correct?

Is Canada British? Citizens of the United Kingdom?

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

So that I might get it straight. You are a citizen of the United Kingdom, the state, but you are an Englishman by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

How many others are like you? The Scotts are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Scotts by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

The Irish are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Irish by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

The Welsh are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Welsh by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

Is this correct?

Not quite. You can be born in France and have French Heritage and Culture, but still be English because you have a UK passport and live in England.
Technically it's about where your post(zip) code is, rather than your heritage.

Things also get complicated again with Ireland.
Northern Ireland is in the UK, but the Republic of Ireland is not, although it is in the British Isles.

Making ethnical distinctions is of course almost entirely subjective.


*edit*

Originally Posted by waste gate

Is Canada British? Citizens of the United Kingdom?

This is pushing my knowledge a bit. I am not sure, but I would suppose that when parts of Canada where part of the British Empire, Canadians where British.
Now they are British-Commonwealth, but not British.
The commonwealth is a whole new kettle of fish!
Wiki Link

Originally Posted by Letum

Not quite. You can be born in France and have French Heritage and Culture, but still be English because you have a UK passport and live in England.
Technically it's about where your post(zip) code is, rather than your heritage.

Things also get complicated again with Ireland.
Northern Ireland is in the UK, but the Republic of Ireland is not, although it is in the British Isles.

Making ethnical distinctions is of course almost entirely subjective.


*edit*

This is pushing my knowledge a bit. I am not sure, but I would suppose that when parts of Canada where part of the British Empire, Canadians where British.
Now they are British-Commonwealth, but not British.
The commonwealth is a whole new kettle of fish!
Wiki Link

Cheese and Rice! You ought to make up a kind of flow chart. Here in the US I consider everyone a US citizen (unless they are here illegaly of course) and don't make any distinction as to their birth, heritage and culture. Much less commonwealth.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Cheese and Rice! You ought to make up a kind of flow chart. Here in the US I consider everyone a US citizen (unless they are here illegaly of course) and don't make any distinction as to their birth, heritage and culture. Much less commonwealth.

It's all because of Englands sectarian history. The cultures vary wildly. The Welsh language is the strongest it has been for a long time, as are English, Scottish and Welsh local, native languages. (althow I speak none of these)

Originally Posted by Letum

It's all because of Englands sectarian history. The cultures vary wildly. The Welsh language is the strongest it has been for a long time, as are English, Scottish and Welsh local, native languages. (althow I speak none of these)

OK, you are English. Are there any geographical boundries (I can find the political boundries) which can be easily applied?
I don't want to insult anyone by calling them English when they are Welsh, and visa versa.

EDIT: The Duke of Wales is English? Is the Royal Family still the House of Hanover? Germans? More cheese and rice.

EDIT 2: Should I be thinking about Celts, Saxons and Normans as well? What nationality was Robin of Locksley , Arthur Pendragin, St Andrew, Richard the Lion Hearted, King John of Magna Carta fame, William the Conquerer, Mary Queen of Scotts (and the English?)?
So many questions. Perhaps I should take a class about the history of Britain from the time of Rome to present day.

[perisher]

Next month I will be visiting friends in Minnesota, I have been explaining the British Constitution to them for over 10 years now and they still don't get it. But then, we don't have a written Constitution, we make it up as we go along, and it's brilliant for trivia quizzes, for example :-

Q. "What nationality do you have to be to join the British Army?"

A. "British, or Irish, or a citizen of a Commonwealth country, or Nepalese."

Happy b-day Britain, I'l have Bush send over some nuclear weapons right away! :p

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by waste gate

EDIT: The Duke of Wales is English?

The Prince of Wales is an hereditary title for the heir to the throne; therefore he is definitely English.

Is the Royal Family still the House of Hanover? Germans? More cheese and rice.

The Georges (I, II, III and IV), George IV's brother William IV and William's niece Queen Victoria were Hanoverians. When Victoria married Prince Albert it was changed to his hereditary name, Saxe-Coburg und Gotha. In 1917 King George V changed the family name to Windsor, which was passed down to George VI and Queen Elizabeth II.

Elizabeth's husband is Prince Philip Mountbatten, who uses his mother's family name since he became a British citizen. I assume that will be the family name of the next king. He was born Philippos Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksberg, Prince of Greece and Denmark.

Robin of Locksley: Would have been English if he was a real person.

Arthur Pendragon: If there was a prototype he was likely a Celt of some sort.

St Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland, but he was Jewish. The younger brother of Saint Peter, he lived and died in ancient Israel.

Richard the Lion Hearted: Descended from William the Conquerer, he was a Norman - descended from Vikings, raised in what is now France. There weren't really defined countries in those days. People were known by families more than regions.

King John of Magna Carta fame: Richard's younger brother, so see above.

William the Conquerer: see Richard, above.

Mary Queen of Scots: She was the daughter of Margaret, sister of Henry VIII, and James V of Scotland, so she was Scottish and English.

So many questions. Perhaps I should take a class about the history of Britain from the time of Rome to present day.

I haven't taken any formal classes, but there are a lot of great books out there. Also more on the internet than you would think is actually good material.

[perisher]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Elizabeth's husband is Prince Philip Mountbatten, who uses his mother's family name since he became a British citizen. I assume that will be the family name of the next king. He was born Philippos Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksberg, Prince of Greece and Denmark.

Family name is now Mountbatten-Windsor (Remains House of Windsor)

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Richard the Lion Hearted: Descended from William the Conquerer, he was a Norman - descended from Vikings, raised in what is now France. There weren't really defined countries in those days. People were known by families more than regions.

Richard is seen as a great hero king, but he only visited England twice in his life. First time to be crowned and to raise taxes. Second time just to raise some more taxes.

[nikimcbee]

Do I need a kilt for this thread?