Why Didn't Anybody Tell Me!?

[Letum]

Originally Posted by August

We're talking about that now here in the U.S. Won't work for us either.

Actually from what I read Hadrians wall worked pretty well, as long as there were Roman Legions guarding it of course.[/quote]

IIRC hadrian's wall was the second line of defence....there was another wall further north that did the real work.

/off topic

I suppose the formation of the UK is not important to us because we consider our selves more English than British.

Originally Posted by Letum

I suppose the formation of the UK is not important to us because we consider our selves more English than British.

What is the difference between being 'more English than British'?

I was not aware of the distinction. Help me here.

EDIT: I don't use the word American when I'm speaking about the United States or its citizens. I use the term US. Is that what you mean?

I don't want to be associated with the boreing non-consequetial Canadians nor the the third world Mexicans. Is it like that between British and English?

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

What is the difference between being 'more English than British'?

I was not aware of the distinction. Help me here.

England is a country in Great Britain.
Great Britain is a island in the British Isles.
(most of) The British Isles are Primary territories of the United Kingdom.
The United Kingdom is a country and sovereign state.
British Overseas Territories are territories of the United Kingdom out side of the British Isles.

He who comes from England is English and British.
He who comes from Scotland is Scottish and British.
He who comes from the United kingdom, but is not in the British Isles is in British Overseas Territories and may also call himself "British".
He who comes from the British Isles, but is not in the United Kingdon is Irish.

Simple, Right?


*edit*

Originally Posted by waste gate

EDIT: I don't use the word American when I'm speaking about the United States or its citizens. I use the term US. Is that what you mean?

I don't want to be associated with the boreing non-consequetial Canadians nor the the third world Mexicans. Is it like that between British and English?

Close, but imagine the USA owned all of the diffrent countries in America like the UK owns (almost) all of the countrys in the British Isles.


*edit#2*
It's all about the diffrance between a country and a sovereign state. Understand that and it will all be clear.

Originally Posted by Letum

England is a country in Great Britain.
Great Britain is a island in the British Isles.
(most of) The British Isles are Primary territories of the United Kingdom.
The United Kingdom is a country and sovereign state.
British Overseas Territories are territories of the United Kingdom out side of the British Isles.

He who comes from England is English and British.
He who comes from Scotland is Scottish and British.
He who comes from the United kingdom, but is not in the British Isles is in British Overseas Territories and may also call himself "British".

Simple, Right?

So that I might get it straight. You are a citizen of the United Kingdom, the state, but you are an Englishman by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

How many others are like you? The Scotts are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Scotts by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

The Irish are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Irish by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

The Welsh are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Welsh by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

Is this correct?

Is Canada British? Citizens of the United Kingdom?

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

So that I might get it straight. You are a citizen of the United Kingdom, the state, but you are an Englishman by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

How many others are like you? The Scotts are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Scotts by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

The Irish are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Irish by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

The Welsh are citizens of the United Kingdom, the state, but they are Welsh by birth, heritage and culture (ie nation)?

Is this correct?

Not quite. You can be born in France and have French Heritage and Culture, but still be English because you have a UK passport and live in England.
Technically it's about where your post(zip) code is, rather than your heritage.

Things also get complicated again with Ireland.
Northern Ireland is in the UK, but the Republic of Ireland is not, although it is in the British Isles.

Making ethnical distinctions is of course almost entirely subjective.


*edit*

Originally Posted by waste gate

Is Canada British? Citizens of the United Kingdom?

This is pushing my knowledge a bit. I am not sure, but I would suppose that when parts of Canada where part of the British Empire, Canadians where British.
Now they are British-Commonwealth, but not British.
The commonwealth is a whole new kettle of fish!
Wiki Link

Originally Posted by Letum

Not quite. You can be born in France and have French Heritage and Culture, but still be English because you have a UK passport and live in England.
Technically it's about where your post(zip) code is, rather than your heritage.

Things also get complicated again with Ireland.
Northern Ireland is in the UK, but the Republic of Ireland is not, although it is in the British Isles.

Making ethnical distinctions is of course almost entirely subjective.


*edit*

This is pushing my knowledge a bit. I am not sure, but I would suppose that when parts of Canada where part of the British Empire, Canadians where British.
Now they are British-Commonwealth, but not British.
The commonwealth is a whole new kettle of fish!
Wiki Link

Cheese and Rice! You ought to make up a kind of flow chart. Here in the US I consider everyone a US citizen (unless they are here illegaly of course) and don't make any distinction as to their birth, heritage and culture. Much less commonwealth.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Cheese and Rice! You ought to make up a kind of flow chart. Here in the US I consider everyone a US citizen (unless they are here illegaly of course) and don't make any distinction as to their birth, heritage and culture. Much less commonwealth.

It's all because of Englands sectarian history. The cultures vary wildly. The Welsh language is the strongest it has been for a long time, as are English, Scottish and Welsh local, native languages. (althow I speak none of these)

[nikimcbee]

Do I need a kilt for this thread?

[joea]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I don't want to be associated with the boreing non-consequetial Canadians nor the the third world Mexicans. Is it like that between British and English?

Likewise for many of us.

Oh and Happy Birthday to the UK ...

BTW, I always understood the difference similar to regional or state/provincial identity in Canada or the US. In Canada Newfoundlanders and Quebecois have a strong identity like many Southerners in the USA.

[bigboywooly]

I suppose the easiest way to liken it for those in the US in that each US state is a country - part of the United States

In that each individual "state " of Great Britain is

Except they are not " states " but countries lumped together under one flag etc etc

I find it interesting that if the Scots had their way they leave the Great Britain banner and become totally free of influence from the UK ( England )

Good luck to them

Take the Welsh with you and all will be well

:rotfl:

Then we can bin this



And go back to this entirely

[robbo180265]

Happy birthday us

This might help explain the boundry thing - scroll down to the bottom

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/At...United_Kingdom

[JScones]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

I suppose the easiest way to liken it for those in the US in that each US state is a country - part of the United States

In that each individual "state " of Great Britain is

Except they are not " states " but countries lumped together under one flag etc etc

I find it interesting that if the Scots had their way they leave the Great Britain banner and become totally free of influence from the UK ( England )

Good luck to them

Take the Welsh with you and all will be well

:rotfl:

Then we can bin this



And go back to this entirely

You'd have to get rid of the Cross Saltire of St Patrick too, otherwise you'd still have something like



:rotfl: :rotfl:

Although it's prolly time (big political message coming up) to adopt something like the below...

[bigboywooly]

Nah the Welsh dont need to be added
They can go it alone too and pay for their own free prescriptions and college fees
:rotfl:

Besides Northern Ireland doesnt have its own government sanctioned national flag now since 1972

The last it had was this



From 1953 to 1972
Now it uses the Union flag

[TteFAboB]

About Wales and the Union Jack, when one was created the other didn't existed: http://www.britainusa.com/sections/a...=41136&a=28728

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

About Wales and the Union Jack, when one was created the other didn't existed: http://www.britainusa.com/sections/a...=41136&a=28728

Interesting, I didn't know that.