Technical details.

Kayback · 05-04-07, 01:59 AM

Maybe it's my hangovers from old games, but I really miss when people don't include nice heafty manuals and reference books in their games.

This has been especially maddening with SH4 and FSX. You've got all these glorious pieces of equipment to use and the book that came with the DVD basically said something along the lines of "insert DVD into drive, if autorun doesn't work, click setup".

How do I find out SH4 specific details on things. Whats the advantages of the Mk14 over the Mk10 over the Mk 18 over the Mk27 torpedo? Whats the average cruising speed of some ships? Whats their armour like?

Unless my DVD case was missing some vital books, SH4 is very skimpy on the documentation.

KBK

Iron Budokan · 05-04-07, 08:26 AM

Remember the manual for Aces of the Deep? Now that was a manual. I could overlook the skimpy manual for SH3/4 if a decent PDF was included...but we didn't even get that much. Bummer. Sign o' the times, I guess.

The SH3 manual was pretty lame when it came out. A lot of people griped about it and with good reason. But in comparison the SH4 manual is an embarrassment...and can hardly be called a manual.

Oh, well. Maybe someone out there will write us a decent manual a la GWX. That'd be nice because there's a lot about the U.S. sub systems I'd like to know, too.

PopManiac · 05-04-07, 08:33 AM

Unfortunately, this has been a problem for quite a few years now, and a good excuse for cutting down costs.

A 20 page manual for an FPS may be adequate but when it comes down to simulators it is unacceptable!

And the worst part was Lock-On which had no manual but only hotkeys printed and the 100+ page manual available on pdf.

I may be provocative here, but what is the added value of going ahead and buying the game when all the compan offers is a crumpy manual? It is of course the legal option, true, but where is the added advantage?

I had written an e-mail to Ubisoft about this, where their reply was in terms of cost and weight - the usual !

But, I feel that at base-cost of an extra 5 - 8 Euros per game, they could provide a full printed manual.

Whatever happened to making the customer feel exceptional?:hmm:

nfitzsimmons · 05-04-07, 08:35 AM

Unfortunately all of the major game publishers are doing this. Worst example, MS Flight Sim X. Sure, then have a nice on-line help system, but I've always liked to take the bloody hard copy manual somewhere comfortable and read it before I fire up the program for the first time.

Oh well, it saves them a few cents per sale...

Bane · 05-04-07, 08:37 AM

I agree. Not having this information in the box or in the game itself is a real shame for a game of this nature. I shouldn't have to scour the internet or the game files to find this technical information which is required to play the game.

SH3 had this information in the game, in the uboat upgrades screen. SH4 does not. Why? [/rhetorical question]

mookiemookie · 05-04-07, 09:41 AM

I'd certainly be willing to pay extra for a game that included a comprehensive manual with specs and details, etc.

But then again, we have to think of the "mainstream gamers" who wouldn't!

U-Bones · 05-04-07, 09:44 AM

I would prefer a sim that was accurate enough that it was documented externally. (real life manuals, etc)

Chock · 05-04-07, 10:46 AM

This is a lament we hear time and time again. I guess that they figure the added cost would reduce the attractiveness of the product to a casual buyer.

But I think (like a lot of decisions made by 'the suits') this is ultimately a false economy. I suspect that a casual buyer who finds themself unable to operate the game because of a lack of documentation is going to be less inclined to buy another product from that company based on his expectations not being met in a previous purchase. Sadly, this kind of short-sightedness is something you see in a lot of industries, where nurturing a customer base is blown out of the water in favour of the 'let's make a fast buck' mentality.

So who says that companies really do listen to their customers in this regard?
That Falcon 4 (original manual) was superb, sadly it wasn't in the more recent Allied Force version, although much of the info in it does still pertain to Allied Force for those lucky enough to have the original weighty tome.

How many software buyers actually pick up a box to a sim and feel the weight of it (or lack of weight) and get that 'oh no, it's pdf time' sinking feeling? I know I do.

There is something of a cottage industy springing up because of this in third-party manuals for a lot of games and some sims, but it's sporadic at best for many titles and tends to come in the form of 'stategy guides' i.e. walk-throughs for online games. On the rare occasion when a sim has got this treatment, its proved popular. The printed version of the Dangerous Waters manual (not available any longer

) is a case in point here.

On the off-chance that a software company does actually see this thread, and one of the reason why I'll always reply to threads of this nature...

BRING BACK THE BIG PAPER MANUAL!

orangenee · 05-04-07, 10:54 AM

I used to like sitting down with a hefty tome to read before playing a Sim, the one for Silent Service II was massive in fact all the old Microprose sim manuals were but since gaming grew we've started getting less for more.

SteamWake · 05-04-07, 09:42 AM

I havent seen a really good manual since Falcon 4.

The manual for dangerous waters was pretty good but a great deal of its "bulk" was of repition of "concepts".

05-04-07, 01:59 AM	#1
Kayback Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 11 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Technical details. Maybe it's my hangovers from old games, but I really miss when people don't include nice heafty manuals and reference books in their games. This has been especially maddening with SH4 and FSX. You've got all these glorious pieces of equipment to use and the book that came with the DVD basically said something along the lines of "insert DVD into drive, if autorun doesn't work, click setup". How do I find out SH4 specific details on things. Whats the advantages of the Mk14 over the Mk10 over the Mk 18 over the Mk27 torpedo? Whats the average cruising speed of some ships? Whats their armour like? Unless my DVD case was missing some vital books, SH4 is very skimpy on the documentation. KBK

05-04-07, 08:26 AM	#2
Iron Budokan Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,778 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Remember the manual for Aces of the Deep? Now that was a manual. I could overlook the skimpy manual for SH3/4 if a decent PDF was included...but we didn't even get that much. Bummer. Sign o' the times, I guess. The SH3 manual was pretty lame when it came out. A lot of people griped about it and with good reason. But in comparison the SH4 manual is an embarrassment...and can hardly be called a manual. Oh, well. Maybe someone out there will write us a decent manual a la GWX. That'd be nice because there's a lot about the U.S. sub systems I'd like to know, too. __________________ "You will take on England wherever you find her ships, and you will break her power at sea." --Iron Coffins, Herbert A. Werner http://kennethmarkhoover.com

05-04-07, 08:33 AM	#3
PopManiac Watch Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 23 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Unfortunately, this has been a problem for quite a few years now, and a good excuse for cutting down costs. A 20 page manual for an FPS may be adequate but when it comes down to simulators it is unacceptable! And the worst part was Lock-On which had no manual but only hotkeys printed and the 100+ page manual available on pdf. I may be provocative here, but what is the added value of going ahead and buying the game when all the compan offers is a crumpy manual? It is of course the legal option, true, but where is the added advantage? I had written an e-mail to Ubisoft about this, where their reply was in terms of cost and weight - the usual ! But, I feel that at base-cost of an extra 5 - 8 Euros per game, they could provide a full printed manual. Whatever happened to making the customer feel exceptional?:hmm: __________________ First one in harm's way

05-04-07, 08:35 AM	#4
nfitzsimmons Planesman Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 180 Downloads: 118 Uploads: 0	Unfortunately all of the major game publishers are doing this. Worst example, MS Flight Sim X. Sure, then have a nice on-line help system, but I've always liked to take the bloody hard copy manual somewhere comfortable and read it before I fire up the program for the first time. Oh well, it saves them a few cents per sale... __________________ "I'd say he was a sadistic, sodomistic necrophile, but that would be beating a dead horse." - Woody Allen

05-04-07, 09:41 AM	#6
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I'd certainly be willing to pay extra for a game that included a comprehensive manual with specs and details, etc. But then again, we have to think of the "mainstream gamers" who wouldn't! __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

05-04-07, 08:37 AM	#5
Bane Torpedoman Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 119 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	I agree. Not having this information in the box or in the game itself is a real shame for a game of this nature. I shouldn't have to scour the internet or the game files to find this technical information which is required to play the game. SH3 had this information in the game, in the uboat upgrades screen. SH4 does not. Why? [/rhetorical question]

05-04-07, 09:44 AM	#7
U-Bones Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Treading Water Posts: 847 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	I would prefer a sim that was accurate enough that it was documented externally. (real life manuals, etc)

05-04-07, 10:46 AM	#8
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This is a lament we hear time and time again. I guess that they figure the added cost would reduce the attractiveness of the product to a casual buyer. But I think (like a lot of decisions made by 'the suits') this is ultimately a false economy. I suspect that a casual buyer who finds themself unable to operate the game because of a lack of documentation is going to be less inclined to buy another product from that company based on his expectations not being met in a previous purchase. Sadly, this kind of short-sightedness is something you see in a lot of industries, where nurturing a customer base is blown out of the water in favour of the 'let's make a fast buck' mentality. So who says that companies really do listen to their customers in this regard? That Falcon 4 (original manual) was superb, sadly it wasn't in the more recent Allied Force version, although much of the info in it does still pertain to Allied Force for those lucky enough to have the original weighty tome. How many software buyers actually pick up a box to a sim and feel the weight of it (or lack of weight) and get that 'oh no, it's pdf time' sinking feeling? I know I do. There is something of a cottage industy springing up because of this in third-party manuals for a lot of games and some sims, but it's sporadic at best for many titles and tends to come in the form of 'stategy guides' i.e. walk-throughs for online games. On the rare occasion when a sim has got this treatment, its proved popular. The printed version of the Dangerous Waters manual (not available any longer ) is a case in point here. On the off-chance that a software company does actually see this thread, and one of the reason why I'll always reply to threads of this nature... BRING BACK THE BIG PAPER MANUAL!

05-04-07, 10:54 AM	#9
orangenee Engineer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 211 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I used to like sitting down with a hefty tome to read before playing a Sim, the one for Silent Service II was massive in fact all the old Microprose sim manuals were but since gaming grew we've started getting less for more.

05-04-07, 09:42 AM	#10
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I havent seen a really good manual since Falcon 4. The manual for dangerous waters was pretty good but a great deal of its "bulk" was of repition of "concepts".