[WIP] Dud Torpedoes Hardcore - testers needed - Page 6

Jungman · 04-28-07, 04:40 AM

The crew I tested with has nothing of rank skills special.

I do notice if I turn OFF auto-torpedo loading, I do not get the Contact/Magnetic setting flipping back on its own -almost.

Secondly, I notice I can get four torpedos in a row to be duds due to firing pin failure if I fire them quickly within about 30 seconds (making sure all set for Contact only). Using test file 100% failure at all angles. They impact at all angles tested for duds.

It would seem the game engine defaults back to the Magnetic combo setting no matter what after a time (about 30 seconds). I could lessen its effect by turning off Auto-Torp loading. Any torp already in the water magically becomes that setting over riding its previous data. Plus ANY updates to the PK will seem to reset it too.

It seems to be related to this buggy flipping from 'Contact' to 'Magnetic' setting, and the reset caused by hitting the PK button or updates. Anything they may cause that switch to flip. The torps on their way to the ship will become re-programmed back to impact influence setting for detonation.

A work around maybe to use some torps as purely Impact only, and others as Magentic only. (Mark 23 is kind of redundant).

I can say very, very well these following values do get used in the .sim file. Premature Detonation, Deep Running, Gyro Angle Problem, Circle Running.

Firing Pin Angle Failure is 'not working' because of the buggy switch flipping back to magnetic influence setting causing any torpedo in the water to reset to this default. Or/And after about 30 seconds. I say this because I can get several no hit duds in a row every time due to Fire Pin AOB Failure if I fire quickly within 30 seconds before the buggy switch flips back so to speak.

tater · 04-28-07, 07:57 AM

Wow, you definitely need to reort that as a bug. Good find!

U-Bones · 04-28-07, 08:19 AM

I saw my first MK14 premature explosions last night - playing stock torpedoes.
5 in a row. What are the odds of that ?

Windspeed 15m, 18-20 depth selected, range <900

Beery · 04-28-07, 11:02 AM

Very interested in where this thread is going.

One thing to be aware of is that the game models some duds in a rather weird way: some torpedoes will impact a ship and they'll appear to explode, but they have no effect on the enemy ship at all. You can only see the non-effect of these torpedoes if you have the full 3D damage graphics checked in the graphics options - they leave no hole in the ship's hull.

Because of the above many players are complaining of torpedoes that explode but do no damage. I think these were intended to be 'contact duds' but the devs forgot to remove the explosion graphics and the sound.

Jungman · 04-28-07, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

Very interested in where this thread is going.

One thing to be aware of is that the game models some duds in a rather weird way: some torpedoes will impact a ship and they'll appear to explode, but they have no effect on the enemy ship at all. You can only see the non-effect of these torpedoes if you have the full 3D damage graphics checked in the graphics options - they leave no hole in the ship's hull.

Because of the above many players are complaining of torpedoes that explode but do no damage. I think these were intended to be 'contact duds' but the devs forgot to remove the explosion graphics and the sound.

I have seen those and you are correct. They are actually coming from the Magnetic Dud Explosion range. It is set for only 1.5 meters stock. So they explode but with no explosive range to do any damage. They simulate Magnetic Exploder duds on the hull according to the sim file. If they did not hit the hull, they would have exploded like a premature explosion anyway, except these actually hit the hull first before PE.

The game seems to default back to Magnetic via a buggy switch as above posts.

Jungman · 04-28-07, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-Bones

I saw my first MK14 premature explosions last night - playing stock torpedoes.
5 in a row. What are the odds of that ?

Windspeed 15m, 18-20 depth selected, range <900

Sim file has the premature rate set by wave height, at 15 m/s winds; that is around 40% IIRC or higher at 70%. The game will use the same chance as the first one if you fire them off all real fast with about 30 seconds.

I did that with Contact Pin Failure with four in a row very easy, as posted above.

Darn quirky.

ZaPPPa · 04-28-07, 07:58 PM

Six MK10's shot and none of them detonated. Either they were all duds or deep-runners. I followed one under water and it went straight through the hull without detonating.. Odd.

I fired them at around 600-700 meters 80 degree angle. Ship has 6-7 mtr draft. Detonator set to either Contact or Influence with depth 2 meter.. still, no luck.

Is the range too short?

Jungman · 04-28-07, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZaPPPa

Six MK10's shot and none of them detonated. Either they were all duds or deep-runners. I followed one under water and it went straight through the hull without detonating.. Odd.

I fired them at around 600-700 meters 80 degree angle, is this too close?

No, stock value is 220 meters arming...latest version had it set for irL of 450 yards ~ 411 meters.

When you say dud, do you mean it bounced off the hull without exploding (firing pin failure), or premature explosion PE (exploding too early, or late, or against the hull with no apparent damage)?

The game knows if it is going to be a PE or deep runner, just follow the camera and I too have seen PE explode on the other side of the ship! passing through...rare though.

--A PE usually goes off around 1000 yards. That close you may very well had them pass through the ship to PE, or even against the hull for no damage.

--80 degree would give you % failure rate of Pin causing a real no bang dud. CCIP Mod. 70 to 90 degree AOB shot is set for 75% Impact failure. So your results are quite expected with Mark 10 torpedo.

Mark 14 is set for 99%.

ZaPPPa · 04-28-07, 09:55 PM

Fired three torpedoes at a Old Medium Split Freighter with depth 1 meter (as shallow at it will allow it to go). When running, the depth on all three was definitely deeper than 1 meter. Followed the first one all the way onto the hull and the torpedoe disappeared, apparently went straight through the hull and kept going. Did another torpedoe on magnetic and the same thing happened. The third one passed inches below the hull (I think) and the magnetic detonator did nothing.

I will do a complete reinstall tomorrow, because I have a feeling the tinkering with mods has completely disabled the collision detection in SH4, making torpedoes unaware of ships and pass straight through as if nothing was there. I'll let you know the results when I've got everything up and running again.

UPDATE: Uninstalled and re-installed all mods and tried again. Came across a large modern composite freighter and fired three torpedoes:

1: MK10, Contact, 2 mtr depth, 55 degree angle, 700 mtrs. HIT! Hurray! Ran a little deep I guess. It hit the hull at around 4-6 mtr depth.
2: MK10, Magnetic, 2 mtr depth, 80 degree angle, 600 mtrs. Miss. Gyro angle problem ran right
3: MK10, Magnetic, 2 mtr depth, 90 degree, 600 mtrs, HIT! Exact same spot as previous torpedoe (4-6 mtr deep).. Impressive lightshow as a result.

It seems like running your torpedoe at anything less than 4 mtr deep will result in it running at its minimum depth, which seems to be 4 mtrs. Not a big deal, but small ships are going to be tough to hit on contact only.

ZaPPPa · 04-30-07, 08:46 AM

I only need two MK10 torpedoe hits max to take out any ship, only one for most ships, is this normal? I am using this mod in combination with FTT 2.4 by the way.

angelherrera2 · 05-02-07, 07:02 PM

YES, thanks

tedhealy · 05-02-07, 07:25 PM

I'd love to use/test this, but the link to the file just goes to the front page at filefront.com now

EDIT: Nevermind, found the working link on page 3.

Galanti · 05-03-07, 06:47 AM

I've been pulling my hair out for two nights now with the Mk.14's until I reread this thread and recalled Egan's gyro observations.

I can confirm I've got his issue: all my mk14 early & late war shots pull 30 degrees to port.

ZaPPPa · 05-03-07, 07:23 AM

It is possible that this is linked to the repeated mission problem that people are having. It looks like the random number generator is malfunctioning in the game, which causes missions to repeat endlessly and all torpedoes to behave the same way for some players...

Just a wild guess though.

Krupp · 05-03-07, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galanti

I can confirm I've got his issue: all my mk14 early & late war shots pull 30 degrees to port.

Same here

04-28-07, 11:02 AM	#79
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Very interested in where this thread is going. One thing to be aware of is that the game models some duds in a rather weird way: some torpedoes will impact a ship and they'll appear to explode, but they have no effect on the enemy ship at all. You can only see the non-effect of these torpedoes if you have the full 3D damage graphics checked in the graphics options - they leave no hole in the ship's hull. Because of the above many players are complaining of torpedoes that explode but do no damage. I think these were intended to be 'contact duds' but the devs forgot to remove the explosion graphics and the sound. __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen.

04-28-07, 07:58 PM	#82
ZaPPPa Watch Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 26 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Six MK10's shot and none of them detonated. Either they were all duds or deep-runners. I followed one under water and it went straight through the hull without detonating.. Odd. I fired them at around 600-700 meters 80 degree angle. Ship has 6-7 mtr draft. Detonator set to either Contact or Influence with depth 2 meter.. still, no luck. Is the range too short? Last edited by ZaPPPa; 04-28-07 at 08:10 PM.

04-28-07, 09:55 PM	#84
ZaPPPa Watch Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 26 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Fired three torpedoes at a Old Medium Split Freighter with depth 1 meter (as shallow at it will allow it to go). When running, the depth on all three was definitely deeper than 1 meter. Followed the first one all the way onto the hull and the torpedoe disappeared, apparently went straight through the hull and kept going. Did another torpedoe on magnetic and the same thing happened. The third one passed inches below the hull (I think) and the magnetic detonator did nothing. I will do a complete reinstall tomorrow, because I have a feeling the tinkering with mods has completely disabled the collision detection in SH4, making torpedoes unaware of ships and pass straight through as if nothing was there. I'll let you know the results when I've got everything up and running again. UPDATE: Uninstalled and re-installed all mods and tried again. Came across a large modern composite freighter and fired three torpedoes: 1: MK10, Contact, 2 mtr depth, 55 degree angle, 700 mtrs. HIT! Hurray! Ran a little deep I guess. It hit the hull at around 4-6 mtr depth. 2: MK10, Magnetic, 2 mtr depth, 80 degree angle, 600 mtrs. Miss. Gyro angle problem ran right 3: MK10, Magnetic, 2 mtr depth, 90 degree, 600 mtrs, HIT! Exact same spot as previous torpedoe (4-6 mtr deep).. Impressive lightshow as a result. It seems like running your torpedoe at anything less than 4 mtr deep will result in it running at its minimum depth, which seems to be 4 mtrs. Not a big deal, but small ships are going to be tough to hit on contact only. Last edited by ZaPPPa; 04-29-07 at 09:34 AM.

04-28-07, 04:40 AM	#76
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The crew I tested with has nothing of rank skills special. I do notice if I turn OFF auto-torpedo loading, I do not get the Contact/Magnetic setting flipping back on its own -almost. Secondly, I notice I can get four torpedos in a row to be duds due to firing pin failure if I fire them quickly within about 30 seconds (making sure all set for Contact only). Using test file 100% failure at all angles. They impact at all angles tested for duds. It would seem the game engine defaults back to the Magnetic combo setting no matter what after a time (about 30 seconds). I could lessen its effect by turning off Auto-Torp loading. Any torp already in the water magically becomes that setting over riding its previous data. Plus ANY updates to the PK will seem to reset it too. It seems to be related to this buggy flipping from 'Contact' to 'Magnetic' setting, and the reset caused by hitting the PK button or updates. Anything they may cause that switch to flip. The torps on their way to the ship will become re-programmed back to impact influence setting for detonation. A work around maybe to use some torps as purely Impact only, and others as Magentic only. (Mark 23 is kind of redundant). I can say very, very well these following values do get used in the .sim file. Premature Detonation, Deep Running, Gyro Angle Problem, Circle Running. Firing Pin Angle Failure is 'not working' because of the buggy switch flipping back to magnetic influence setting causing any torpedo in the water to reset to this default. Or/And after about 30 seconds. I say this because I can get several no hit duds in a row every time due to Fire Pin AOB Failure if I fire quickly within 30 seconds before the buggy switch flips back so to speak.

04-28-07, 07:57 AM	#77
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Wow, you definitely need to reort that as a bug. Good find!

04-28-07, 08:19 AM	#78
U-Bones Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Treading Water Posts: 847 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	I saw my first MK14 premature explosions last night - playing stock torpedoes. 5 in a row. What are the odds of that ? Windspeed 15m, 18-20 depth selected, range <900

04-30-07, 08:46 AM	#85
ZaPPPa Watch Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 26 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	I only need two MK10 torpedoe hits max to take out any ship, only one for most ships, is this normal? I am using this mod in combination with FTT 2.4 by the way.

05-02-07, 07:02 PM	#86
angelherrera2 Watch Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 17 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	YES, thanks

05-02-07, 07:25 PM	#87
tedhealy Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO, USA Posts: 772 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I'd love to use/test this, but the link to the file just goes to the front page at filefront.com now EDIT: Nevermind, found the working link on page 3.

05-03-07, 06:47 AM	#88
Galanti Captain Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ottawa Posts: 536 Downloads: 106 Uploads: 0	I've been pulling my hair out for two nights now with the Mk.14's until I reread this thread and recalled Egan's gyro observations. I can confirm I've got his issue: all my mk14 early & late war shots pull 30 degrees to port.

05-03-07, 07:23 AM	#89
ZaPPPa Watch Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 26 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	It is possible that this is linked to the repeated mission problem that people are having. It looks like the random number generator is malfunctioning in the game, which causes missions to repeat endlessly and all torpedoes to behave the same way for some players... Just a wild guess though.