Crew Management Directions?

U-Bones · 04-26-07, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmatthias

Filling the Damage control slots is an unrealistic exploit. In real life, there would be no place for these guys to sleep...

Unrealistic exploit ? LOL

Think of it as a duty station instead of a physical location. There is no place to sleep modeled anywhere on the sub. Quarters are virtual for the rest of the duty stations, why not damage control ?

FAdmiral · 04-26-07, 01:53 PM

I have had systems damaged and then repaired with NO crew in the damage
control slots at all?? Not sure what that implies but maybe its just eye candy
when you see crew inside the sub repairing various items. (have seen them
turning wrenches and plugging leaks)...

JIM

fredbass · 04-26-07, 02:04 PM

Sometimes you can force them to sleep sooner than they normally would. But usually I don't bother with it.

LukeFF · 04-26-07, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-Bones

Think of it as a duty station instead of a physical location. There is no place to sleep modeled anywhere on the sub. Quarters are virtual for the rest of the duty stations, why not damage control ?

Beacuse it's NOT a duty station, but rather one that's manned only in an emergency. Do you really think submarines had a 10-man team dedicated to nothing but damage repair? NO! Damage control should work like it does in SH3: you pull ten of your best guys from their regular duty stations and put them to work. It IS an exploit in its current form here in SH4.

U-Bones · 04-26-07, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-Bones

Think of it as a duty station instead of a physical location. There is no place to sleep modeled anywhere on the sub. Quarters are virtual for the rest of the duty stations, why not damage control ?

Beacuse it's NOT a duty station, but rather one that's manned only in an emergency. Do you really think submarines had a 10-man team dedicated to nothing but damage repair? NO! Damage control should work like it does in SH3: you pull ten of your best guys from their regular duty stations and put them to work. It IS an exploit in its current form here in SH4.

Ok, duty assignment... station was a bad choice of words, even if I made it clear I was not talking about a location. And you are equally wrong in your inplication that it is a station that is physically "manned". DC goes where the damage is, when there is damage.

I understand that it upsets some that they do nothing else, but remember the whole thing is a very simple virtualization of how jobs get done. It's not like every task on the sub is accounted for here or that it takes exactly so many people to keep that diesel humming...

If it makes you feel better, I leave 6 of my torp room slots empty and pull folks off DC duty to reload fish. I understand what you are saying, but getting the job done here does not mirror reality and I dont get hung up on it. Its more important to have the DC crew assigned for fast reaction than the torpedo room full. I will lose the 30 seconds on reloads, but 30 seconds on DC can be a disaster. Which would a captain give priority to ? Would the DC party balk at leaving their "day jobs" when there is damage ?

This is a GAME issue that you play through. The SIM issue is that the sim falls short of reality with duty assignments, why should I let that impose stupid priorities on my game decisions ?

DC is high priority. Why would I roleplay not assigning anyone to DC and placing my ship and crew in mortal danger ? Essientially that is what you do if you declare this an exploit.

So accept and mitigate the imposed limitations or call it an exploit as it suits you, but this really makes me laugh.

Torpex752 · 04-27-07, 05:44 AM

Subs then and now had a "Watch, Quarters and Station Bill" It assigned every person by name or billit a duty to perform during certain events Like battle stations Surface, Battle stations Submerged Torpedo Attack, Sea and Anchor detail, etc...

So YES having an assigned DCparty is not an exploit but rather a simple assignment.

Frank

LukeFF · 04-27-07, 11:59 PM

U-Bones, I accept and understand that damage control is an essential part of the game that needs to be paid attention. My whole grief is that, in it's current form, the damage control team does nothing else on the boat. I can accept that positions like the radio operator, cooks, medical, etc., are abstracted in the background. That's fine. What I want is a simple system back like we had in SH3: when you have damage, your best men from among the crew (selected by the player before the patrol) are sent to repair damage when the damage control team is activated. Shoot, I think it'd be even better if, for instance, off-duty crew would fill in slots on the DC team, providing a quick-reaction force, if you will. When battlestations is called, they go back to their regularly assigned station. Activate the damage control team, and your pre-selected men for DC go to this station.

I just think there would be so much more flexibility with this game if crew management was implemented in a more realistic manner, instead of putting forth the image that there were dedicated damage control parties aboard every ship. Damage control is one of the key elements all new recruits learn in basic training, and SH4 should reflect that.

Actually, I do like your idea of pulling guys off the torpedo stations and putting them into the damage control slots. It's a realistic way of dealing with realistic problems. Unfortunately it's just not automated at this time.

U-Bones · 04-28-07, 12:48 AM

Yeah, it could be better, but you work with what you have. It is still miles better than SH3. I weigh anchor with 6 empty torp slots and nobody in gun slots. I may or may not have DC filled completely, and I use them for reloads or gun stations as needed.

Fleet Snipe · 08-07-07, 10:02 PM

Damage Control is an assigned duty during General Quarters only. Men assigned to DC parties are from the normal working divisions from the Engineering Department which includes A division, M division, B division, E division and R divisions.

Each individual within these divisions has a normal "day" job depending on their rating and the responsibilities of that division (always fixed). Again, they become part of a DC party ONLY during GQ. The deck ratings would handle things like the guns, lookouts, bridge functions (helmsman, engine order telegraph), ammunition handling, etc., during GQ. They would not be part of a DC party.

I've not served aboard submarines, and believe there is more cross training than the surface fleet, but ratings are ratings and division are divisions all with specific functions to be served during a normal non-combat watch and during General Quarters.

Actually, speaking of watches and such, there are two basic functions served by every sailor. One is his normal day job which starts at 8:00 and ends at 16:30 (hours as I recall from many years ago). A normal day job might be anything from airconditioning maintenance to boat maintenance to deck ape duties like painting and general ship maintenance.

Each sailor also has watches based on sections. These watches have nothing to do with a day job though there is some relation based on the responsibility of the division and the ratings within that division.

Typically, there are two 4-hour watches to be served during a 24 hour period plus the normal working day. At least one watch will fall - in whole or in part - in the normal work day except on Sunday's which is a day off except for watches.

Maybe you Richover boys can shed more light on how the pig boats are run. I can't image it is all that different than the surface fleet.

Anyway, with that said - and though it's not realistic - I just fill up my DC party with the best guys I can afford to get before leaving on patrol. That seems to work okay (I guess

).

Don't know if this means anything to anybody...and sorry for all the rambling as I try to recall details from my Navy days - which I really didn't care for anyway (computer simulations are much more fun)

04-26-07, 01:53 PM	#2
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I have had systems damaged and then repaired with NO crew in the damage control slots at all?? Not sure what that implies but maybe its just eye candy when you see crew inside the sub repairing various items. (have seen them turning wrenches and plugging leaks)... JIM __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

04-26-07, 02:04 PM	#3
fredbass Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Port Richey, Fl, USA Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sometimes you can force them to sleep sooner than they normally would. But usually I don't bother with it. __________________

04-27-07, 05:44 AM	#6
Torpex752 Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep River, CT Posts: 255 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Subs then and now had a "Watch, Quarters and Station Bill" It assigned every person by name or billit a duty to perform during certain events Like battle stations Surface, Battle stations Submerged Torpedo Attack, Sea and Anchor detail, etc... So YES having an assigned DCparty is not an exploit but rather a simple assignment. Frank

04-27-07, 11:59 PM	#7
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	U-Bones, I accept and understand that damage control is an essential part of the game that needs to be paid attention. My whole grief is that, in it's current form, the damage control team does nothing else on the boat. I can accept that positions like the radio operator, cooks, medical, etc., are abstracted in the background. That's fine. What I want is a simple system back like we had in SH3: when you have damage, your best men from among the crew (selected by the player before the patrol) are sent to repair damage when the damage control team is activated. Shoot, I think it'd be even better if, for instance, off-duty crew would fill in slots on the DC team, providing a quick-reaction force, if you will. When battlestations is called, they go back to their regularly assigned station. Activate the damage control team, and your pre-selected men for DC go to this station. I just think there would be so much more flexibility with this game if crew management was implemented in a more realistic manner, instead of putting forth the image that there were dedicated damage control parties aboard every ship. Damage control is one of the key elements all new recruits learn in basic training, and SH4 should reflect that. Actually, I do like your idea of pulling guys off the torpedo stations and putting them into the damage control slots. It's a realistic way of dealing with realistic problems. Unfortunately it's just not automated at this time.

04-28-07, 12:48 AM	#8
U-Bones Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Treading Water Posts: 847 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Yeah, it could be better, but you work with what you have. It is still miles better than SH3. I weigh anchor with 6 empty torp slots and nobody in gun slots. I may or may not have DC filled completely, and I use them for reloads or gun stations as needed.

08-07-07, 10:02 PM	#9
Fleet Snipe Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wheaton, Illinois Posts: 5 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Damage Control is an assigned duty during General Quarters only. Men assigned to DC parties are from the normal working divisions from the Engineering Department which includes A division, M division, B division, E division and R divisions. Each individual within these divisions has a normal "day" job depending on their rating and the responsibilities of that division (always fixed). Again, they become part of a DC party ONLY during GQ. The deck ratings would handle things like the guns, lookouts, bridge functions (helmsman, engine order telegraph), ammunition handling, etc., during GQ. They would not be part of a DC party. I've not served aboard submarines, and believe there is more cross training than the surface fleet, but ratings are ratings and division are divisions all with specific functions to be served during a normal non-combat watch and during General Quarters. Actually, speaking of watches and such, there are two basic functions served by every sailor. One is his normal day job which starts at 8:00 and ends at 16:30 (hours as I recall from many years ago). A normal day job might be anything from airconditioning maintenance to boat maintenance to deck ape duties like painting and general ship maintenance. Each sailor also has watches based on sections. These watches have nothing to do with a day job though there is some relation based on the responsibility of the division and the ratings within that division. Typically, there are two 4-hour watches to be served during a 24 hour period plus the normal working day. At least one watch will fall - in whole or in part - in the normal work day except on Sunday's which is a day off except for watches. Maybe you Richover boys can shed more light on how the pig boats are run. I can't image it is all that different than the surface fleet. Anyway, with that said - and though it's not realistic - I just fill up my DC party with the best guys I can afford to get before leaving on patrol. That seems to work okay (I guess ). Don't know if this means anything to anybody...and sorry for all the rambling as I try to recall details from my Navy days - which I really didn't care for anyway (computer simulations are much more fun)