Doctrine question: when to submerge on patrol?

[Chock]

Ultimately it's up to the skipper of the boat to interpret his orders in any way he sees fit, as he is the one most aware of the tactical situation at the time.

This is one of the themes explored in the movie, Run Silent, Run Deep, when Clark Gable takes his boat to the Bungo Strait despite having been given specific orders to avoid it, claiming that he is in possesion of new facts which give him a tactical advantage that HQ is unaware of, thus setting up the conflict with Burt Lancaster, his XO. It was also a theme which was rehashed in Crimson Tide Between Gene Hackman and Denzil Washington (nowhere near as good though).

One of the critical things with military doctrine is that a battle plan survives intact about as long as cheap screwdriver does. This was one of the problems with the former Soviet Union, where the officers were vastly more skilled than the men, meaning that if the officer took a hit, there was rarely anyone below him who could take over with any degree of competence. More enlightened forces place the emphasis on everyone being capable of taking the initiative and training the man below you to do your job, which is why conscript armies usually get their asses kicked by volunteer forces.

[perisher]

Without effective radar subs would remain submerged during daylight if the skipper thought that there was a probable threat from enemy aircraft. This would depend on the tactical situation and the proximity of enemy bases. Once reliable radar was installed subs would run on the surface in daylight and dive on a radar contact being made.

The sonar only attack was employed because the Americans, at first, over estimated the Japanese ASW capability. They thought that a periscope would almost always be spotted and that once the scope was sighted a D/C attack would be inevitable and probably fatal.

[TheSatyr]

Once subs got SD radar it wasn't unusual for a sub to stay on the surface all the way to it's patrol area...only diving for drills and the occasional air contact...and even then they wouldn't dive unless they thought the contact was getting too close to visual range.

[TheSatyr]

As for sonar attacks,those were quickly discarded after the first war patrols as being useless. And some of the skippers that tried to use it were removed from command...which was not in the least bit fair...since that was how they were taught to attack. Daylight-Sonar,Night-Periscope. The object was to not put your sub at risk.

[VonBlade]

Originally Posted by TheSatyr

As for sonar attacks,those were quickly discarded after the first war patrols as being useless. And some of the skippers that tried to use it were removed from command

It's lucky this isn't Wikipedia because that sounds like the ultimate unsourced statement.

Submarine Captains aren't exactly ten-a-penny. And if Sonar was that frowned upon they wouldn't have installed it in the boat.
VB

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by VonBlade

It's lucky this isn't Wikipedia because that sounds like the ultimate unsourced statement.

Submarine Captains aren't exactly ten-a-penny. And if Sonar was that frowned upon they wouldn't have installed it in the boat.
VB

While it may be "un sourced" I think youll find that the participants of this forum are quite knowledgable.

Sonar has uses other than "attacks".

[VonBlade]

Absolutely. Sorry I seemed to have missed off all my "gentle ribbing" smileys from my earlier post.

Still sounds like a dubious statement, but I wasn't implying it doesn't have the potential of being accurate.