Convoy escorts...Be more agressive - Page 3

SteamWake · 04-24-07, 08:04 PM

I just dont get it.

As soon as I loose the first salvo the escorts are on my ass like white on rice.

We playin the same game ?

kakemann · 04-24-07, 08:09 PM

Probably, but I think the escort AI varies.

Sometimes they are really agressive. Sometimes they just stop up and act passive. Sometimes they just keep crusing. Sometimes they actually atacks.

I've experienced all of these things.
But SH3 was far more challenging considering the DD's AI.

Ducimus · 04-24-07, 08:42 PM

In regards to AI detecting the player.

There really is no need to reinvent the wheel:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111395

Also, feel free to blantantly take AI sensor tweaks from my mod and apply it to your own game if you want. If you don't like my tweaks, theres also a harder escort mod by NVDrifer i beleive. Check the mod listing sticky post in the mod forum for link.

edit:
as to AI behavior's such as coming to a dead stop after a torpedo attack or convoys slowing down the speed of the slowest ship is beyond the ability to fix by a mod. That can only be patched by Ubi.

kakemann · 04-24-07, 08:49 PM

Yeah! I know Ducimus.

I have managed to change Sim.cfg so the escorts hear better, but thats not the problem.
I also changed all crew status to veteran in campaing files.

The problem is that sometimes when I have managed to sneak into a convoy or task force undetected and hit a ship, the DD's will not start searching or be alerted. They just stop, or keep cruising forward just as nothing has happened.

But sometimes they actually DO react and then they will be quite deadly. It's just weird when they act like this. I don't think it has anything to do with the DD's sensors. I think it is some kind of bug.

If I run into a single destroyer for instance he is always dangerous, but it varies quite a bit when I meet big convoys or task forces

Several users of this forum has mentioned this issue. So I guess it's a bug.

Ducimus · 04-24-07, 08:58 PM

:hmm:

Any AI visual tweakage and what time of day, what was the weather, when surfacing in the convoy? edit( oh yea, what year? maybe radar came into play?)

kakemann · 04-24-07, 09:00 PM

If you are asking me - i was not surfacing. I stayed underwater. It occurs once in a while in calm, and stormy weather.... I mean in any weathercondition

The only files I have changed myself is the hydrophone and sonar settings in sim.cfg and all of the campaign files.

Sometimes they act really clever.Sometimes they just seem really stupid!

DirtyHarry3033 · 04-24-07, 09:05 PM

Hmm, I think all the AI varies

Just finished up a turkey shoot on a half-decent task force in Karimata Strait while en route to Surabaya (Manila just fell...) Dec 29, 1941, local time 03:38. Heavy seas.

Had 8 mk 14's left in the bow tubes, 4 loaded and 4 reloads. 56 feet of water under the keel at PD, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide! 2 Hiryu class CV's, 2 Furutaka class heavy cruisers, 2 Akitsu escort carriers. numerous DD's and light cruisers. several tankers and tenders.

Put 3 torps in the lead Hiryu and 1 in the 2nd Hiryu. Before the 2nd Hiryu was hit, the 1st was on the bottom and the cruisers were lighting up their searchlights but otherwise doing nothing. Meanwhile the whole task force slowed to 2 kts or so just like the convoys have done. Very shortly after, Hiryu #2 went under.

Put 3 torps into the closest Furutaka cruiser over the space of several minutes, sent her to the bottom...

All this time, not ONE of the Japs is doing anything more than flashing morse and sweeping spotlights around

Had 1 torp left, and a semi-tempting Akitsu CV crossing my bow. Let fly with the last torp, got a hit and some nice flames but she wouldn't go down. So I got crazy, surfaced and after much effort (heavy seas kept sending me back to command room...) was able to finish her off with about 4 rounds of HE from the deck gun.

And still, not a single escort was doing anything!!! I sank three carriers and a cruiser, and I think if I'd come up alongside the surviving IJN flagship and requested "Permission to come aboard sir!", they'd have piped me aboard with honors!

(SH3 made me work a lot harder...)

DH

kakemann · 04-24-07, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHarry3033

(SH3 made me work a lot harder...)

DH

Yeah I agree.

But... Do you have any mods installed?

Ducimus · 04-24-07, 09:11 PM

well if your using stock visual settings, being frank, they suck. As i recall the surface factor is 400, and speed factor is 15. Which is VERY forgiving on the player.

For a quick tweak, change your visual surface factor to 150, and your visual speed factor to 8 and see if you notice any change. Might want to bump the light factor to 1.75 to 2, otherwise you might have a hard time at night

As for super stupid vs super smart tin cans (assuming same crew rating, same scenario/enviormental variables), i haven no answer for that.

kakemann · 04-24-07, 09:14 PM

Thanks Ducimus. I'll change these settings anyhow.

But i guess it's just the dumb destroyers which is causing my problems.
Since i haven't been surfacing when the stupid DD thing happened.

DirtyHarry3033 · 04-24-07, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakemann

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHarry3033

(SH3 made me work a lot harder...)

DH

Yeah I agree.

But... Do you have any mods installed?

A few mods. Very few, here's the list:

bs_silrun_all_menus
Captain Midnights CBS News Sound Mod
Dark Recognitionmanual
GREEN LOCK AND POSITION BUTTON
GreenLamp
LESS WATER LIMBER HOLES
ParaB's fewer radio contacts
Real Medals v1.01
REL_Flavored_to_taste_1H
Sky_Environment_Opt3
Submarine Bearing Tool (3000 Yards)

That's it!

DH

kakemann · 04-24-07, 09:22 PM

Our issue is probably the same. It has been reported and confirmed in the SH4bugs site as well as in the patch 1.2 bug thread here at Subsim (number 23 here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...112193&page=16)
Hope it will be fixed in the next patch

NefariousKoel · 04-24-07, 09:24 PM

The Escorts and even the Convoy AI needs a big overhaul. I've only seen DCs dropped on me once and that was back near where I fired long before.. nowhere near.

I've also never heard active sonar pings nor seen searchlights. This all in the first year of the war.

I have screenshots of a destroyer passing directly over my submerged position twice in a row and not even pinging much less dropping DCs.

This is definitely not historical. From the onset, the subs were getting DC'd and prosecuted though perhaps not as efficiently as later.

I'm thinking there's something seriously wrong with the escort's detection abilities at the least, and possibly the AI.

Ducimus · 04-24-07, 09:24 PM

FTT 1H? wow. Try FTT 2.3 - Numberous AI tweakages.

kakemann · 04-24-07, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

FTT 1H? wow. Try FTT 2.3 - Numberous AI tweakages.

Sorry! Didn't get that!

04-24-07, 08:49 PM	#34
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Yeah! I know Ducimus. I have managed to change Sim.cfg so the escorts hear better, but thats not the problem. I also changed all crew status to veteran in campaing files. The problem is that sometimes when I have managed to sneak into a convoy or task force undetected and hit a ship, the DD's will not start searching or be alerted. They just stop, or keep cruising forward just as nothing has happened. But sometimes they actually DO react and then they will be quite deadly. It's just weird when they act like this. I don't think it has anything to do with the DD's sensors. I think it is some kind of bug. If I run into a single destroyer for instance he is always dangerous, but it varies quite a bit when I meet big convoys or task forces Several users of this forum has mentioned this issue. So I guess it's a bug. __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

04-24-07, 09:00 PM	#36
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	If you are asking me - i was not surfacing. I stayed underwater. It occurs once in a while in calm, and stormy weather.... I mean in any weathercondition The only files I have changed myself is the hydrophone and sonar settings in sim.cfg and all of the campaign files. Sometimes they act really clever.Sometimes they just seem really stupid! __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

04-24-07, 09:14 PM	#40
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Thanks Ducimus. I'll change these settings anyhow. But i guess it's just the dumb destroyers which is causing my problems. Since i haven't been surfacing when the stupid DD thing happened. __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

04-24-07, 09:22 PM	#42
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Our issue is probably the same. It has been reported and confirmed in the SH4bugs site as well as in the patch 1.2 bug thread here at Subsim (number 23 here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...112193&page=16) Hope it will be fixed in the next patch __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

04-24-07, 09:24 PM	#43
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The Escorts and even the Convoy AI needs a big overhaul. I've only seen DCs dropped on me once and that was back near where I fired long before.. nowhere near. I've also never heard active sonar pings nor seen searchlights. This all in the first year of the war. I have screenshots of a destroyer passing directly over my submerged position twice in a row and not even pinging much less dropping DCs. This is definitely not historical. From the onset, the subs were getting DC'd and prosecuted though perhaps not as efficiently as later. I'm thinking there's something seriously wrong with the escort's detection abilities at the least, and possibly the AI. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

04-24-07, 08:04 PM	#31
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I just dont get it. As soon as I loose the first salvo the escorts are on my ass like white on rice. We playin the same game ?

04-24-07, 08:09 PM	#32
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Probably, but I think the escort AI varies. Sometimes they are really agressive. Sometimes they just stop up and act passive. Sometimes they just keep crusing. Sometimes they actually atacks. I've experienced all of these things. But SH3 was far more challenging considering the DD's AI.

04-24-07, 08:42 PM	#33
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	In regards to AI detecting the player. There really is no need to reinvent the wheel: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111395 Also, feel free to blantantly take AI sensor tweaks from my mod and apply it to your own game if you want. If you don't like my tweaks, theres also a harder escort mod by NVDrifer i beleive. Check the mod listing sticky post in the mod forum for link. edit: as to AI behavior's such as coming to a dead stop after a torpedo attack or convoys slowing down the speed of the slowest ship is beyond the ability to fix by a mod. That can only be patched by Ubi.

04-24-07, 08:58 PM	#35
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	:hmm: Any AI visual tweakage and what time of day, what was the weather, when surfacing in the convoy? edit( oh yea, what year? maybe radar came into play?)

04-24-07, 09:05 PM	#37
DirtyHarry3033 Weps Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 351 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hmm, I think all the AI varies Just finished up a turkey shoot on a half-decent task force in Karimata Strait while en route to Surabaya (Manila just fell...) Dec 29, 1941, local time 03:38. Heavy seas. Had 8 mk 14's left in the bow tubes, 4 loaded and 4 reloads. 56 feet of water under the keel at PD, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide! 2 Hiryu class CV's, 2 Furutaka class heavy cruisers, 2 Akitsu escort carriers. numerous DD's and light cruisers. several tankers and tenders. Put 3 torps in the lead Hiryu and 1 in the 2nd Hiryu. Before the 2nd Hiryu was hit, the 1st was on the bottom and the cruisers were lighting up their searchlights but otherwise doing nothing. Meanwhile the whole task force slowed to 2 kts or so just like the convoys have done. Very shortly after, Hiryu #2 went under. Put 3 torps into the closest Furutaka cruiser over the space of several minutes, sent her to the bottom... All this time, not ONE of the Japs is doing anything more than flashing morse and sweeping spotlights around Had 1 torp left, and a semi-tempting Akitsu CV crossing my bow. Let fly with the last torp, got a hit and some nice flames but she wouldn't go down. So I got crazy, surfaced and after much effort (heavy seas kept sending me back to command room...) was able to finish her off with about 4 rounds of HE from the deck gun. And still, not a single escort was doing anything!!! I sank three carriers and a cruiser, and I think if I'd come up alongside the surviving IJN flagship and requested "Permission to come aboard sir!", they'd have piped me aboard with honors! (SH3 made me work a lot harder...) DH

04-24-07, 09:11 PM	#39
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	well if your using stock visual settings, being frank, they suck. As i recall the surface factor is 400, and speed factor is 15. Which is VERY forgiving on the player. For a quick tweak, change your visual surface factor to 150, and your visual speed factor to 8 and see if you notice any change. Might want to bump the light factor to 1.75 to 2, otherwise you might have a hard time at night As for super stupid vs super smart tin cans (assuming same crew rating, same scenario/enviormental variables), i haven no answer for that.