Lethal Injection for Execution: Chemical Asphyxiation?

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by waste gate

If you don't want your threads 'hi-jacked' stop posting. Everyones threads are 'hi-jacked'.

Yeah, that´s usually because some people don´t think before they post.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Yeah, that´s usually because some people don´t think before they post.

How about people that don't think before they start a new thread? Am I correct that if you don't want to talk about something that you do not talk about it in your initial post? Or am I off my rocker on that one?

-S

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Yeah, that´s usually because some people don´t think before they post.

Hey Gizzmoe

If you are going to quote me in a Skybird thread maybe it would be more of a contribution if you quoted all my posts. I'm on his ignore list and posting one only contributes to the hard feelings he may have toward me and I uspect Skybird dissmisses them out of hand. Thanks.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

If you are going to quote me in a Skybird thread maybe it would be more of a contribution if you quoted all my posts. I'm on his ignore list and posting one only contributes to the hard feelings he may have toward me and I uspect Skybird dissmisses them out of hand. Thanks.

Its a private club! Its easy to enter - just disagree with Skybird is all it takes! If you views differ from his, and you don't put up with his personal attacks, you get blocked - easy as that! If he can't beat you, he blocks you. I love it! Now I don't have to deal with his bad and backwards ideas in relation to my posts. Its about time.

-S

[Tchocky]

*reads threads growth since last visit*

*cries*

And remarkably - not a single person so far had a comment to make about the orignal thread.

Skybird, look at my first post in this thread. I clearly state my views on the topic that you posted.

This thread has become a steaming mess, partly due to the Golden Rule (on all sides), AND the unnecessary platforming in the original post.

If you dont want a death penalty debate on your page, fine, there's an easy way to do that. Alas, it appears too far into the thread.
You said it yourself

But all that is not the thread's focus, as I said in the opening. It is about the possible cruelty of a special way of killing a person that is to be executed, and that by ruling of the 8th amendement, "cruel punishment" is illegal in the US.

That should have been at the top of your first post. Instead, you broadcast your opinion on the logic of the death penalty.
You know how easily arguments brew up here, the way to avoid them is NOT to say what you think and then type "Let's ignore that debate". You're being disingenuous, I believe.

And I don't even care...

OK, that ends the Skybird portion of my post.

Rest of you guys: shut the hell up
Tchocky: Stop telling everyone what to do, you clod!
Everyone: leave the "teflonman" and "crybaby" out of it

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

*reads threads growth since last visit*

*cries*

Skybird, look at my first post in this thread. I clearly state my views on the topic that you posted.

This thread has become a steaming mess, partly due to the Golden Rule (on all sides), AND the unnecessary platforming in the original post.

If you dont want a death penalty debate on your page, fine, there's an easy way to do that. Alas, it appears too far into the thread.
You said it yourself

That should have been at the top of your first post. Instead, you broadcast your opinion on the logic of the death penalty.
You know how easily arguments brew up here, the way to avoid them is NOT to say what you think and then type "Let's ignore that debate". You're being disingenuous, I believe.

And I don't even care...

OK, that ends the Skybird portion of my post.

Rest of you guys: shut the hell up
Tchocky: Stop telling everyone what to do, you clod!
Everyone: leave the "teflonman" and "crybaby" out of it

Stop telling everyone what to do, you clod!

[U-533]

I feel that feeding and educating a Murderer or Rapist or Pedophile is a slap in my face.

At this point in time the prisons around this globe are over crowded...

Why?

Because some shrinks and some bleeding hearts got together to try and solve the worlds problems...

NEWS FLASH

Its not working.

I say the easiest way to stop criminal breeding criminal is PUBLIC:

HANGING

GASING

ELECTRICUTION

FIRING SQUAD

hell throw in the GUILLOTINE for fearfactor

and for a good show a few CRUXFICTIONS

I'm sick and tired of being told that Criminals like the ones mentioned above have rights...

OH! I almost forgot

BURN 'EM AT THE STAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could really go off here but theres no use in beating a dead horse!

Unless you think it would help?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by U-533

I feel that feeding and educating a Murderer or Rapist or Pedophile is a slap in my face.

At this point in time the prisons around this globe are over crowded...

Why?

Because some shrinks and some bleeding hearts got together to try and solve the worlds problems...

NEWS FLASH

Its not working.

I say the easiest way to stop criminal breeding criminal is PUBLIC:

HANGING

GASING

ELECTRICUTION

FIRING SQUAD

hell throw in the GUILLOTINE for fearfactor

and for a good show a few CRUXFICTIONS

I'm sick and tired of being told that Criminals like the ones mentioned above have rights...

OH! I almost forgot

BURN 'EM AT THE STAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could really go off here but theres no use in beating a dead horse!

Unless you think it would help?

Finially! Someone with some common sense!

-S

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You are right, August, that piece gave me quite a time to think about. However, In the excerpt from wikipedia I highlighted in red this part (following is a longer quote than before):

...

when summarizing it all, I came to the conclusion that despite the debate about the word "and" (curel and unusual), as indicated by you and the author of the wikipedia entry, there nevertheless seem to be consensus that torturing somebody to death is fulfilling both conditions.

what remains is the question to what degree suffocation is degrading to human diginity and by it's quality is equal to the pain implemented by intentional torture. Last year, so says a German blog, death candidates in Missouri and South Dakota reached a court ruling that this form of execution is scratched from the list of execution methods that are considered constitutional, because the reliabilty of one or two of the three involved agents to succeed in the purpose for which they are used already was at doubt. However, courts in Florida, Kentucky and Texas ruled differently, saying that a certain ammount of pain does not automatically cause a method of execution to be classified as "verboten". Last decembre, the dying of Angel Diaz in Florida lasted longer than half an hour.

I did not understand how that can be brought into congruence with what has been written about execution and torture in the part from wikipedia above.

Anyway, I see no reason why people should be executed with unneeded pain and suffering (which includes years and years of waiting, hoping and dissappointment, btw.) even animals do not take pleasure from the suffering of their prey, they kill to eat, and that's it. some of mankind's societies reserve the right to kill as a legalized form of retaliation. But doing that with more cruelty than needed is inhumane, barbaric, and reminds me strongly of pleasing the cheering crowds in the circus maximus. And I must say that is too cheap for me.

So when there are death penalties, and they are confirmed from highest instance - why can'T one just go and have the person shot the same day or week? For me death penalty is no penalty anyway, only a removal of a person. I oppose the idea of death as a penalty, but I take legalized preemptive killing in case of certain types of crimes into account. For example if big fishes of weapon and drug smuggling, cartell bosses, and the like, must be expected to rule their business from inside the prison, or could be the reason of kidnappings in order to have them released.

Like other contentious issues, the institution of lethal injection as the preferred execution method is an attempt at making death less distasteful to witness. Like putting a favored pet down the idea is that criminal just goes to sleep and that's it, except as we now know in certain cases like Diaz's, death did not come so quick. To me that just means we should change the cocktail to something that insures relatively instant unconsiousness as was originally intended.

It's funny though that you should mention Angel Diaz as he is like a poster boy for the death penalty as much as he is for changing the method employed.

In 1978 he murdered the director of a drug rehab organization by stabbing him 19 times while his victim slept, for which he was sentenced to a paltry 10-15 years and put in the general prison population. This gave him the time and opportunity for escape and a year later he murdered again. Now the death penalty might not be a deterrent to first offense crimes but I firmly believe that had Angel "Papo la Muerte" Diaz been put on inescapable death row for the first murder his second victim would still be alive today.

If a person proves themselves willing to kill for fun and profit then the death penalty will ensure that person never gets the chance to do it again and that IS deterrence.

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You are right I am sure in that a couple of them felt so terrible that death was what they wanted, but I doubt that is the majority. Most of them file appeal after appeal to prlong their life that it is pathetic. That one Chinese guy who is tottally toying with the courts to prolong his execution date comes to mind.

-S

Charles Ng

He and his buddy Leonard Lake (and Lake's ex-wife) did some evil stuff.

He was arrested at a Hardware Store right next to where I was selling office supplies in South San Francisco.

[gnirtS]

If thiopental and potassium chloride fail to cause anesthesia and cardiac arrest, potentially aware inmates could die through pancuronium-induced asphyxiation. Thus the conventional view of lethal injection leading to an invariably peaceful and painless death is questionable.

And this is a problem how exactly ?

Doubt the people getting it extended the same courtesy to their victims. These people shouldn't be ENTITLED to a peaceful, painless death.

[Tchocky]

Then whats the difference between continuing an agonising and drawn-out execution process and forty lashes in the square? (as U-553 seems to want)

The penalty for breaking the law is to be deprived of some of your freedoms. To be deprived of liberty. NOT to be put through physical pain.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

*reads threads growth since last visit*...
(...)
..." and "crybaby" out of it

I admit I posted a long first sentence, I tend to produce "Schachtelsätze" (multi-clause sentences) in Englisch, however, if you read the first sentence in the opening posting from A to Z, you read it like this:

The flawed logic of understanding the killing of a man as a penalty, while a penalty in modern understanding is not to rebalance a cosmic scales by a principle of "an eye for an eye", but is understood as a sanction by which the behavior of the deliquent is to be influenced and changed, ...

...would be a topic for itself. Also if longterm jail sentence fit into this description.
However, let's ignore that debate. This is the story:...

etc etc

So, in my first, my very first sentence I already said that all that old debate (that we repeatedly had over the years, if you remember) would be a thread for itself - and therefor should be excluded from this one.

If I would just have demanded these old debates being ignored without refering to them and explaing that it would lead beyond the scale of this thread, you or somebody else would have complained again, too, for being mastered around and being told what he should think and say.

(In the quote I just corrected a mismatched word, "Also where longterm jail..." corrected to "Also if longterm jail..." The old sentence didn't make sense due to that wrong word.)

BTW, you are right, your first reply included a related answer. I even red it but then forgot it due to the anger meanwhile.

August and me partially agree, for the most disagree - and still were able to exchange our differing views in a reasonable way. I was willing to think about what he said, and replied to it accordingly, and I think he gave some thought to what I replied, judging by his latest answer. I must not agree, but this is the way this thread was planned: focussing on the item, not using an old bone to attract dogs from the past to get them balking and biting again about something different.

-----------------------

Answering August's latest, and Tchocky's first,

the rejection of Florida, Kentucky and Texas to positively answer the request to replace chemical execution due to it's (at that time: assumed) irreliability does not seem to indicate that there is a wide national support on adressing this contradiction between the demand of the 8th amendement not to execute in a torturing manner, and the unpredictable risk of severe and long agony caused by chemical execution. Of five states asked to consider it, three said no, two said yes.

[Tieg]

I still like my PPV idea. :P

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by gnirtS

And this is a problem how exactly ?

Doubt the people getting it extended the same courtesy to their victims. These people shouldn't be ENTITLED to a peaceful, painless death.

You haven't got the point so far. What you demand is anti-constitutional. Read the part on the 8th amendement. Execution by torturing - is not only morally reprehensible, but also simply - illegal. Law-braking. You need to follow a lawcode. If you just follow your personal subjective yearning for something like revenge (on a scale on which you only decide), then this is called lynch law.