TDC vs Position Keeper discussion

[Snowman999]

Awesome info Snowman999, thanks for sharing. You really need to speak up more often.

Aw, shucks. <g> There are lots of guys here with more experience than I had. Look in the "Who served in a sub" thread.

On the stuff you quoted, in fact the part about the TBT is the same word for word as in the link with the TBT picture I provided, seems like they used your reference as a source there.

That manual set is priceless. Every sub simmer should at least flip through it to understand just how complex these beasts were on a mechanical basis. I'm amazed at the solutions they achieved with electro-mechanicals that we would flip off with digital now. There were some real engineers at EB and BuShips in those days.

As to "Bearing, Mark! Range, Mark! AOB is ____. Down scope."

- I would think this is what we are basicly simulating when we send Range, AOB and speed via the upper right hand dial in scope / TBT view.

Essentially, yes. But the game doesn't really model how critical short scope exposures were. The AO needed to do the data collection AND get a tactical picture in 5-7 seconds on an initial, and 3-5 seconds on subsequent, looks.

Well, maybe except for speed, as this was indeed mostly plotted by the FC party from early on most of the time, and this would be simulated only if the stopwatch thingy would be working.

Speed is the one place the game is just wrong. Speed came from class ID limits, normal Japanese convoy behavior, and most often from sonar turn counts. Taking three observations and doing a mo-board is nice theory, but many targets would have come and gone while you were dogging it between looks. (Especially IJN targets; they didn't mosey along.)

Also, the observation itself is formal, short, and data-rich because those seconds of scope exposure were priceless and very dangerous. Once the scope was down the AO would converse with his party. He'd do the target ID then ("Looks like a medium coastal freighter, smoking badly, deep laden.") He'd describe the escort screen, as much as he could. He'd lean over the plot and help the plotter rough in the formation, and begin a zig tracking plan. Then he'd do the second onservation. If a zig had happened it got interesting quickly.

Ned Beach's books have some of the best choregraphy for this process I know of. He was a far beter writer than O'Kane. O'Kane was probably the best AO the USN ever produced, but his writing is robotic. Beach gives more flavor IMO.