I told you so

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

Western reason degenerating? Pffft... western reason has always been weak to begin with! IE, two world wars and then itself planting the seeds that became the diabocal that is the Middle East today.

See the greater context. For me it began in ancient Greece - not after WWII. Those threethousand years of developement finally led us where we are today - science, technics, meidcine, philosphy, humanism, law, values like freedom, equality; it often was painful, and many stepbacks, but all in all we advanced.

Until today. Now our possebilities are beyond their climax and turn into the opposite. What was reasonable to do and to use in the past, has become a threat today. What was a blessing before, now perverts into extremes doing damage. We have reached the climax some where in recent past - and as we all know, after you reached a climax, things necessarily go down again. Moving in cycles, or better, in spirals - after each round, a new beginning - but hopefully on one level higher.

Well, let's see. I see nature being structured in hierarchies. when you are on one level, you hold the remedy to problems of subordinate levels, but having gained this your current levels has created new problems for you that were not known on levels before, and to which the solution can only be found on even higher levels. This is what drives evolution, imo.

If today so many recipes of the past turn into threats to us, and chnage inbto perverse extremes, than this is a sign, imo, that our moving to the next "level" is blocked, for whatever a reason. These problems are symptoms of stagnation, and interrupted movement.

the 80s were pretty much esoteric, with lots of literature on that. there was oftehn talk of a change of paradigm, and change of ages, a coming "Aquarian" age and we standing on the brink to it. I think this expresses what I mean, from different perspectives, in other words. I, too, think that we cannot survive for much longer if we do not absolve some most fundamental changes, after which we are no longer what we have been, once. Call it an evolutionary quantum leap, maybe, to reach the next level. If we fail in that - well, we will be in good company then. we will belong to those 99.9% of species that since the beginning of life on this planet has appeared and then vanished again. Intelligence in the homo sapiens style still is an evolutionary experiment only, and it may proove to be a dead end, maybe. Nevertheless we are not the only intelligent life forms, we are oinly the ones who have pushed tool-related intelligence further than any other species. But maybe that is becasue of our marvellpous design. what ways will intelligence try to develope on when havin no abilitiy to manipulate tools like we do, or live in a different space, like the open ocean? Or intelligence that is not aware of itself: swarm intelligence, insect states? Artificial intelligence?

Puts things into perspective, I think. And maybe our extinction would be a benefit for life on earth if we are not capable to become different than how we are today.

[Rockstar]

oops your right about it being the 22nd, sorry.

About Daniel though looking at how God numbered them 1-4 would indicate (atleast to me) that we are talking about just four empires. Subdividing the third or fourth into 2 empires would increase the count to 6 and that I believe adding to it. We read this interpretation of the image was given to Daniel by the God of Israel. Who are we to interpret would God has already intepreted for us? Also I believe the entire chapter and contents of the old testement tells of God dealing with Israel and His chosen people. The Roman Empire and the 1st Islamic Calphate happened during the age of grace when God would have all men come to the knowledge of Christ. When the church is taken up God will again be dealing directly with Israel and that fourth empire spoken of in Daniel, namely those nations mentioned in Ezekiel and many others will come against Israel in That Day.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Who are we to interpret would God has already intepreted for us?

The Prophets' words of G-d themselves are sometimes in need of interpretation when there is a discrepency over the ages on what the original meaning was.