Is SH4 World Flat? - Page 2

SingeDebile · 04-14-07, 07:02 PM

thank you seeadle i tried to explain in words what you showed in pictures... your methode was definatly better..

Skweetis · 04-14-07, 08:09 PM

*sigh*

The devs made SH4 based on a flat map, 'cause the world IS FLAT!

Just look: http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djubl...rthsociety.htm

No cylinders, no spheres. Flat. Our Romanian friends are quite aware of this, therefore they modeled the Earth with the most accurate and realistic map possible: based on Reality.

SteamWake · 04-14-07, 08:14 PM

And the buckles are Marine and theres only 485 rivets not 490.....

Yuh its flat this was discussed in SH3 briefly. Its just that SH4 has vastly greater distances.

Theres enough programming nuancies to muck about... Imagine trying to explain to laymen the great circle route

CCIP · 04-14-07, 08:16 PM

SH4's map is flat, BUT there is a real horizon in the game. Those of us in the modding business who've messed with the scene files know that the game models a curvature when rendering the 3D world around your sub.

Zengaze · 04-14-07, 08:22 PM

A very relevant point was made earlier and was somewhat overlooked; while the map being flat may to most be inconsequential, it does have a significant bearing on patrol ranges, and therefore it must be said the operational capabilities of the boats are not simulated.

sunvalleyslim · 04-14-07, 08:41 PM

CaptBC,
Welcome aboard, and if you haven't played SH3, I would suggest you give that a try too........An outstanding game in that the bugs have been worked out and the game modded. So you can play an outstanding game while waiting for this one to mature

IsaanRanger · 04-14-07, 08:42 PM

Except in FSX and FS2004, Flight Simulator has a true Spherical Earth.

SteamWake · 04-14-07, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaanRanger

Except in FSX and FS2004, Flight Simulator has a true Spherical Earth.

Has a few less things to model.

CCIP · 04-14-07, 08:52 PM

Well it's a different engine. I'm sure there's technical reasons behind the flat SHIV map. In the big scope of things, I honestly don't think some of the distance deviations matter all that much in the end. They can be an issue, but not a big one by any means.

IsaanRanger · 04-14-07, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaanRanger

Except in FSX and FS2004, Flight Simulator has a true Spherical Earth.

Has a few less things to model.

Better Scenery as well

SteamWake · 04-14-07, 10:18 PM

Have you played combat flight simulator ?

Look this game (SH4) is calculating lots of things... damage models, ship models + AI, torpedo trajectorys, shells trajectorys + impacts + damagge, sensor input, Line of sight, not to mention the many convoys, and dynamic campaign thingys.

I play fsx and enjoy it. Even participate in a VA. But frankly FSX has a lot less things to worry about than SH4. The comparison is unfair.

Seeadler · 04-15-07, 05:42 AM

more about planetary rendering
http://www.organicvectory.com/planet/planet_index.html
ftp://ftp.research.microsoft.com/pub/tr/tr-2005-123.pdf

SingeDebile · 04-15-07, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaanRanger

Except in FSX and FS2004, Flight Simulator has a true Spherical Earth.

Has a few less things to model.

have you heard of x-plane ? (sperical earth... with FAA approved LIVE calculated flight physics... not from tables like every single other flight sim)

in terms of simulation etc... i would say x-plane (www.x-plane.com) is calculating alot more... the graphics arnt as good as SH4 (not that its ugly at all)... but it gets Everything else right

Sailor Steve · 04-15-07, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaanRanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaanRanger

Except in FSX and FS2004, Flight Simulator has a true Spherical Earth.

Has a few less things to model.

Better Scenery as well

Depends on where you are. I flew to Wilhelmshaven and there was nothing there at all.

Diopos · 08-11-08, 04:22 AM

Resurficing this older thread just to say:
1. When you have to travel an "ingame" trip of ~15000-16000 km (from Midway to N/NE out of Formosa and back) of what would actually a 11000-12000 km trip.
2. When your map is not a flat projection of a spherical world but a flat "zoom out" of a flat earth.

and when all these are primary designer decisions that actually "desimulate" a foundamental aspect of WW2 submarine warfare which is not only shooting (dud

) torpedoes but shooting (dud

) toprpedoes after traveling through half an ocean to have that privilege (that is to shoot dud torprdoes

) then this is a problem.
SO SH4 is definetely not a simulation. As Zengaze noted earlier in this thread:

"Zengaze: A very relevant point was made earlier and was somewhat overlooked; while the map being flat may to most be inconsequential, it does have a significant bearing on patrol ranges, and therefore it must be said the operational capabilities of the boats are not simulated."

Simple as that...Altough I'd never consider a "flat earth" map (i.e a wrong map) "incosequential" in any naval simulation which includes trips to patrol zones half an (Pacific) ocean away.
Now we can try to enjoy "SH4 a FPTS -First Person Torpedoe Shooter".

Has the flat earth been "moded out" somehow? Seems rather difficult to do so......

04-14-07, 07:02 PM	#16
SingeDebile Seaman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 33 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	thank you seeadle i tried to explain in words what you showed in pictures... your methode was definatly better.. __________________ animal kingdom phylum

04-14-07, 08:09 PM	#17
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	sigh The devs made SH4 based on a flat map, 'cause the world IS FLAT! Just look: http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djubl...rthsociety.htm No cylinders, no spheres. Flat. Our Romanian friends are quite aware of this, therefore they modeled the Earth with the most accurate and realistic map possible: based on Reality. __________________ "Is the glass half-empty? Or half-full? Either way, when you're thirsty, there's water to be had in that glass." - Neal Stevens

04-14-07, 08:16 PM	#19
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	SH4's map is flat, BUT there is a real horizon in the game. Those of us in the modding business who've messed with the scene files know that the game models a curvature when rendering the 3D world around your sub. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

04-14-07, 08:41 PM	#21
sunvalleyslim Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 1,142 Downloads: 267 Uploads: 0	CaptBC, Welcome aboard, and if you haven't played SH3, I would suggest you give that a try too........An outstanding game in that the bugs have been worked out and the game modded. So you can play an outstanding game while waiting for this one to mature __________________ Crew member/ decommission member TM2(SS)(SD) 3/68-7/70 DIESEL BOATS FOREVER USS SEGUNDO (SS398)

04-14-07, 08:52 PM	#24
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Well it's a different engine. I'm sure there's technical reasons behind the flat SHIV map. In the big scope of things, I honestly don't think some of the distance deviations matter all that much in the end. They can be an issue, but not a big one by any means. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

04-14-07, 08:14 PM	#18
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	And the buckles are Marine and theres only 485 rivets not 490..... Yuh its flat this was discussed in SH3 briefly. Its just that SH4 has vastly greater distances. Theres enough programming nuancies to muck about... Imagine trying to explain to laymen the great circle route

04-14-07, 08:22 PM	#20
Zengaze Watch Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 20 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	A very relevant point was made earlier and was somewhat overlooked; while the map being flat may to most be inconsequential, it does have a significant bearing on patrol ranges, and therefore it must be said the operational capabilities of the boats are not simulated.

04-14-07, 08:42 PM	#22
IsaanRanger Watch Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 15 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Except in FSX and FS2004, Flight Simulator has a true Spherical Earth.

04-14-07, 10:18 PM	#26
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Have you played combat flight simulator ? Look this game (SH4) is calculating lots of things... damage models, ship models + AI, torpedo trajectorys, shells trajectorys + impacts + damagge, sensor input, Line of sight, not to mention the many convoys, and dynamic campaign thingys. I play fsx and enjoy it. Even participate in a VA. But frankly FSX has a lot less things to worry about than SH4. The comparison is unfair.

04-15-07, 05:42 AM	#27
Seeadler Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Northern Germany Posts: 1,096 Downloads: 169 Uploads: 0	more about planetary rendering http://www.organicvectory.com/planet/planet_index.html ftp://ftp.research.microsoft.com/pub/tr/tr-2005-123.pdf

08-11-08, 04:22 AM	#30
Diopos Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Athens, the original one. Posts: 1,226 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Resurficing this older thread just to say: 1. When you have to travel an "ingame" trip of ~15000-16000 km (from Midway to N/NE out of Formosa and back) of what would actually a 11000-12000 km trip. 2. When your map is not a flat projection of a spherical world but a flat "zoom out" of a flat earth. and when all these are primary designer decisions that actually "desimulate" a foundamental aspect of WW2 submarine warfare which is not only shooting (dud ) torpedoes but shooting (dud ) toprpedoes *after* traveling through half an ocean to have that privilege (that is to shoot dud torprdoes) then this is a problem. SO SH4 is definetely not a simulation. As Zengaze noted earlier in this thread: "Zengaze: A very relevant point was made earlier and was somewhat overlooked; while the map being flat may to most be inconsequential, it does have a significant bearing on patrol ranges, and therefore it must be said the operational capabilities of the boats are not simulated." Simple as that...Altough I'd never consider a "flat earth" map (i.e a wrong map) "incosequential" in any naval simulation which includes trips to patrol zones half an (Pacific) ocean away. Now we can try to enjoy "SH4 a FPTS -First Person Torpedoe Shooter". Has the flat earth been "moded out" somehow? Seems rather difficult to do so...... __________________ - Oh God! They're all over the place! CRASH DIVE!!! - Ehm... we can't honey. We're in the car right now. - What?... er right... Doesn't matter! We'll give it a try anyway!