[TEC] Crash Speed

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Redwine

Many thanks, Very interesting...

After pass the crush depth.... you still having the irreversible sinking ?

Not if you get back up before the hull is crushed

Crash Speed has a lot to do with that.
Default is 2
I am currently using .01+++ - less than 1% of default
Next test will use .1+++ between 5%-10% of default

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

Not if you get back up before the hull is crushed

Crash Speed has a lot to do with that.
Default is 2
I am currently using .01+++ - less than 1% of default
Next test will use .1+++ between 5%-10% of default

You dont understand me... if you pass the crush depth, but with a slow crashspeed you are able to rise your sub to shallow depths, the hull continues its damage and destroy proccess ?

That seems to happen with the curious "unreversible sink"....

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Redwine

You dont understand me... if you pass the crush depth, but with a slow crashspeed you are able to rise your sub to shallow depths, the hull continues its damage and destroy proccess ?

That seems to happen with the curious "unreversible sink"....

I do not believe the irresistable sink is related to the hull. You can hold depth with creep speed until the second the hull collapses. I have not tested taking a damaged hull back up to safe levels for extended periods, but the short pop back up to surface I did in test one leads me to believe that going back above test with a 50% hull will stop the damage. I will take a stressed hull back up above test and check it for an extended period tonight.

It is my thought that the unreversable sink is related to bulkhead and compartment damage. Which reminds me, I need to set my bulkheads back to type=wall and repeat some of these tests for a sanity check.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

I do not believe the irresistable sink is related to the hull. You can hold depth with creep speed until the second the hull collapses. I have not tested taking a damaged hull back up to safe levels for extended periods, but the short pop back up to surface I did in test one leads me to believe that going back above test with a 50% hull will stop the damage. I will take a stressed hull back up above test and check it for an extended period tonight.

It is my thought that the unreversable sink is related to bulkhead and compartment damage. Which reminds me, I need to set my bulkheads back to type=wall and repeat some of these tests for a sanity check.

Good !

Nothing seems to works to avoid the unreversible sink... :hmm:

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Redwine

You dont understand me... if you pass the crush depth, but with a slow crashspeed you are able to rise your sub to shallow depths, the hull continues its damage and destroy proccess ?

That seems to happen with the curious "unreversible sink"....

OK Redwine, I tested your question

Same Gato as before, same settings
Before : 401ft - after 3 hours .31 damage, 4h 34m crush
Now: 401ft = after 3.5 hours .373276 Damage.
Order PD recheck - same damage
Cruise at PD 6 hours. Damage is now .424262 - 5% more damage.
Order Surface, recharge.
Order PD. Cruise 6 hours. Damage stable
Cruise addition 4 hours. Damage stable.
Order Surface, recharge.
Order depth 149.
After 2 hours no additional damage
After 8 hours no additional damage.

So it seems that once you start damage, it will continue until you surface. Once you do so, the sub should be somewhat servicable. Please note that this is 100% just hull damage that NEVER shows up anywhere except the save game, and that you never have any trouble keeping depth with 1/3 Ahead. In game the only clue you have is blinking lights and occasional minor graphical leaks.

I am going to redo this test with my bulkheads set back to type=wall. I expect no major difference.

[U-Bones]

Repeated test with stock bulkheads. Test was almost dead on repeat, within 1%, except this time when I surfaced and reset the damage flags (?), I took light deck gun damage and hull was damaged from .418321 to .500452. I repeated the test from that point on with the same results as far as the hull damage goes - it was stabilized once I surfaced.

However, the deck gun damage just had to spread to both aa guns... that is a seperate and ugly feature that I sure hope is fixed in 1.2...

OK next I am going to test the padded crash depth with faster crash speed. I am aiming for damage that is more sudden and serious, and closer to crash depth than test. I find it silly taking damage barely over test depth.

[Jungman]

I do thank you for going through the trouble to make these good discoverys.

I had some damage with a graphical picture of a pipe water burst (but no sound??). I wonder about. I had damage that was fixed. So I went to surface and the water finally leak stopped. I guess it reset as you said.

I was able to back to periscope depth without no more hull continue to show crush damage (steam, extra light blink, electrical spark but no sound), unti I went 200 feet then I got the death spiral.

So that would explain it. If you have damage to pressure hull, even though it is fixed, you still get damage some until you surface to stop the further damage and it resets. Still learning your data results.

[U-Bones]

New Gato. 500HP.
I tried at desired crash x 1.45 (135 x 1.45 = 195m) for the padding
I set crash speed to .0426 which was about the depth i expected to take damage (more importantly a little over double my previous number).
I found I took no damage even at hours at 440ft, so I blew tanks.

I tried desired crash x 1.33 (135 x 1.33 = 180m) for the padding
I tried desired crash in feet/10000 as crash speed (.0442)

09:05 order 408 1/3
12:00 0% hull damage order 436ft
13:00 .022741
14:00 .090800
15:36 1.000000 Crash
----- reloaded 14:00
15:00 .247431
15:15 .359715
15:25 .565042
15:30 .565042
15:35 .565042 (immediate crash when resume)
----- reloaded 15:25 ordered surface std blow tanks
15:30 .612368 on surface std
15:30 ordered 100 1/3
18:30 .630399
20:00 .630399 Order PD
02:00 .630399

This seems maybe too gentle to me (edit:maybe not - just noticed 3.5h instead of 5.5h - tired and sloppy). Basically on the high side of the damage zone, it is taking 3.5 hours (not 5.5) to crush. Also the slower crash speed may be exploitable for quick trips to 600 and back... note the 10+ minutes without a damage pulse above. I do like that the damage starts around where it does though, the padding x1.33 is decent.

Thoughts ?

[Ducimus]

So it seems that once you start damage, it will continue until you surface.

Thats what ive experienced. You know , i was just thinking. In SH3 there was basically just one pressurehull. While there was compartments, the overall pressurehull seemed to act as one singular object. Or at least, so is my impression. BUt in SH4, its like.. we now have 4 or 5 different pressurehulls, and each one acts like it's the only pressurehull in the boat, as indicated by how EVERYTHING goes after any single one folds in. In otherwords, its not localized anymore. If the hull was localized, then only one compartment would be damaged, no?

it's late, im tired and rambeling.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

So it seems that once you start damage, it will continue until you surface. Once you do so, the sub should be somewhat servicable.

That was parto of my question, the damage seems to continues when submerged, i exoerienced the same, but i let the sub on surface later, i receive the message all damage reapired sir, or so similar, and sail a good time.... bulkhead repaired, and when submerged another time.... the ship starts to sink.

The intersting if this way can works is... if we can reduce the crash speed, to a balanced value, to give you time to reach the surface and repair the hulll.

The matter is, after a good time of surface sailing, if you can dive another time without sink.

This way can have a good and a bad point.

The good is, may be we have a chance to avoid the "unreversable sink", the bad is the sub become so resistent to the "crush pressure"

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Redwine

That was parto of my question, the damage seems to continues when submerged, i exoerienced the same, but i let the sub on surface later, i receive the message all damage reapired sir, or so similar, and sail a good time.... bulkhead repaired, and when submerged another time.... the ship starts to sink.

The intersting if this way can works is... if we can reduce the crash speed, to a balanced value, to give you time to reach the surface and repair the hulll.

The matter is, after a good time of surface sailing, if you can dive another time without sink.

This way can have a good and a bad point.

The good is, may be we have a chance to avoid the "unreversable sink", the bad is the sub become so resistent to the "crush pressure"

Hull damage acts entirely differently than battle damage. I am finding hull damage to be modeled fairly sanely, other than the bizarre need to completely surface. I guess you can think of it as a chance to inspect and patch

Compartment and equipment on the other hand, do all kinds of unexpected things, especially bulkheads. Bulkheads get referred to as "pressure hull damage" but they are simply components, supposedly interior walls, that act like they are exterior walls. They do not influence the hull HP as far as I can tell, but they do have a dramatic impact on displacement. They should isolate leaks to a single compartment, problem is when a compartment gets damaged, nearly -everything- in the compartment is toast - meaning no leak isolation. As far as I see, bulkheads are more of a problem than a cool addition. I hope this is one of the things they tweak in 1.2

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

As far as I see, bulkheads are more of a problem than a cool addition. I hope this is one of the things they tweak in 1.2

Agree with you...

[Ducimus]

It might be worth understanding this bit in the equipment.upc file, in particualr the bulkhead:

;DamageDescription1= Taken_DamageType, -  MinDamage -  MaxDamage -  MinMaintenance -  MaxMaintenance -  chancefactor -  Message -  Spawned_damage_HP -  Spawned_damage_AP -  Spawned_Damage_Type -  EfficiencyReduction -  repair_skill -  repairtime_in_hours 

DamageDescription1= -------NULL,--------------0-----------,0.2,------------0,--------------1------------------,1,------Minor Leak--------,0,------------------0,--------------------NULL----------------,0,---------------------0.2,------------------0.2
DamageDescription2= -------NULL,--------------0.2,---------0.6,------------0,--------------1,------------------1,------Large hole,--------0,------------------0--------------------,NULL,--------------- 0,---------------------0.2,------------------0.5
DamageDescription3= -------NULL,--------------0.6,---------1,--------------0,--------------1,------------------1,------Wall breached,-----0,------------------0--------------------,NULL,----------------0,--------------------0.2,--------------------1