Can you attack using only the Radar?

AVGWarhawk · 04-12-07, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastfed

In history, many Submarines actually used ONLY radar to attack, they actually got all the information from the radar scope and didn't need the P-scope, they entered the information into the TDC and fired and sunk many ships using just radar..

I read this is many books and just finished reading "Submarine" that they did this..

I wonder if the radar that is not really working in SH4 will eventually work and allow us to use the radar scope to make these caculations.

If I'm not mistaken, you can send the radar info to the TDC. Same with the sonar station.

SteamWake · 04-12-07, 10:03 AM

What strikes me as strange is that typically to be within the range of a torpedo you are also within "visual" range of the target. Not to mention the fact that you have to be surfaced to use it :hmm:

Mark 1 eyeball being the most precise instrument available why not make use of it ?

The ony thing I can think of is in crap weather with limited visibility.

tater · 04-12-07, 10:06 AM

They had periscope radar as well. Not sure when it appeared.

fastfed · 04-14-07, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

What strikes me as strange is that typically to be within the range of a torpedo you are also within "visual" range of the target. Not to mention the fact that you have to be surfaced to use it :hmm:

Mark 1 eyeball being the most precise instrument available why not make use of it ?

The ony thing I can think of is in crap weather with limited visibility.

What really suprised me, was the fact that many of these submarines, even in convoys almost all the time did surface attacks, it was very rare that they actually dove down to P depth, even with escorts around.. Seriously go get the book "Submarine" Its a great non fiction book..
It talkes about many of the historic battles from the Wahoo,Trigger and many many more..

It seems that the skippers never really dove until they fired all 10 of there loaded torps.

akdavis · 04-14-07, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastfed

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

What strikes me as strange is that typically to be within the range of a torpedo you are also within "visual" range of the target. Not to mention the fact that you have to be surfaced to use it :hmm:

Mark 1 eyeball being the most precise instrument available why not make use of it ?

The ony thing I can think of is in crap weather with limited visibility.

What really suprised me, was the fact that many of these submarines, even in convoys almost all the time did surface attacks, it was very rare that they actually dove down to P depth, even with escorts around.. Seriously go get the book "Submarine" Its a great non fiction book..
It talkes about many of the historic battles from the Wahoo,Trigger and many many more..

It seems that the skippers never really dove until they fired all 10 of there loaded torps.

Many, many submerged attacks were made, especially in '41-'42.

As far I know, the game does not include any way to send radar contact data to the TDC, nor does the radar display show bearing for manual input. This makes no sense given the availability of all that for sonar.

LukeFF · 04-14-07, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akdavis

As far I know, the game does not include any way to send radar contact data to the TDC, nor does the radar display show bearing for manual input. This makes no sense given the availability of all that for sonar.

Agreed. Let's put that in as a suggestion for 1.3, plus the ability to add ST radar to our periscope (late in the war).

Egan · 04-12-07, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

If I'm not mistaken, you can send the radar info to the TDC. Same with the sonar station.

Can you? I thought you could only do that with Sonar?

AVGWarhawk · 04-12-07, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egan

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

If I'm not mistaken, you can send the radar info to the TDC. Same with the sonar station.

Can you? I thought you could only do that with Sonar?

I think you can, I only messed with the radar once in 43. I think one of the switches on the board will feed the TDC....I think

Sailor Steve · 04-12-07, 10:31 AM

I guess I'm getting old; I don't recall any accounts of attacks using nothing but radar. Making contact and getting initial ranges, sure; but I don't remember reading about them making the final attack without visual contact.

Quillan · 04-12-07, 10:40 AM

I could see it happening; imagine a good storm where visibility is perhaps 300-400 yards. The radar will still show you targets at several miles range. You won't be able to to make positive ID on the targets, so you might well shoot a friendly or set the running depth wrong on the torpedoes.

With the TDC manual inputs the way they are in this game it'll probably be harder than in SH3. I once made a totally submerged attack in a XXI to see if it was possible; it was incredibly satisfying when the torpedo actually hit the target from 2100 meters, but it wasn't a quick process setting it up.

SteamWake · 04-12-07, 10:52 AM

Question is really why would you ?

The aspect of the target as in abeam of you not pointed towards you could not be discearned by radar only. This would greatly increase your chances of a "deflection miss".

XanderF · 04-12-07, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Question is really why would you ?

The aspect of the target as in abeam of you not pointed towards you could not be discearned by radar only. This would greatly increase your chances of a "deflection miss".

Of course it would. Take a range + bearing reading a few times, mark those on the map, draw a line between the points, *poof*, you have their heading (and thus AoB).

Egan · 04-12-07, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I guess I'm getting old; I don't recall any accounts of attacks using nothing but radar. Making contact and getting initial ranges, sure; but I don't remember reading about them making the final attack without visual contact.

Jim Calvert reports one in 'Silent Running,' where they couldn't see the targets because it was a stormy night. They got quite a few hits but received very little credit for it due to the fact a sinking had to be visually confirmed. Radar confirmation was regarded as being less than accurate. I'm pretty sure he states that it was all done with the PPI. They used a Banjo as well to aid them and fired from extreme range. Calvert was quite upset about it, as his skipper, Tommy Dykers, was transfered out of Subs at the end of the patrol and Calvert believed that the patrol results to have played a part. (They seemed to have believed that Dykers taste for night time surface attacks betrayed a lack of appetite for a Daytime Peri attack and the inevitable Depth charging follow up...

)

MRV · 04-14-07, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I guess I'm getting old; I don't recall any accounts of attacks using nothing but radar. Making contact and getting initial ranges, sure; but I don't remember reading about them making the final attack without visual contact.

I agree, you should know WHAT you are about to torpedo, don't you?

rcocean · 04-14-07, 03:23 PM

Battleship Kongo was sunk by Sealion II using a surface Radar attack.

The Awa maru was sunk by Queenfish by radar in dense fog. Four torpedoes were fired and all hit.

04-12-07, 10:31 AM	#9
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I guess I'm getting old; I don't recall any accounts of attacks using nothing but radar. Making contact and getting initial ranges, sure; but I don't remember reading about them making the final attack without visual contact. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

04-12-07, 10:40 AM	#10
Quillan Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 579 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I could see it happening; imagine a good storm where visibility is perhaps 300-400 yards. The radar will still show you targets at several miles range. You won't be able to to make positive ID on the targets, so you might well shoot a friendly or set the running depth wrong on the torpedoes. With the TDC manual inputs the way they are in this game it'll probably be harder than in SH3. I once made a totally submerged attack in a XXI to see if it was possible; it was incredibly satisfying when the torpedo actually hit the target from 2100 meters, but it wasn't a quick process setting it up. __________________ We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

04-12-07, 10:03 AM	#2
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	What strikes me as strange is that typically to be within the range of a torpedo you are also within "visual" range of the target. Not to mention the fact that you have to be surfaced to use it :hmm: Mark 1 eyeball being the most precise instrument available why not make use of it ? The ony thing I can think of is in crap weather with limited visibility.

04-12-07, 10:06 AM	#3
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	They had periscope radar as well. Not sure when it appeared.

04-12-07, 10:52 AM	#11
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Question is really why would you ? The aspect of the target as in abeam of you not pointed towards you could not be discearned by radar only. This would greatly increase your chances of a "deflection miss".

04-14-07, 03:23 PM	#15
rcocean Nub Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Battleship Kongo was sunk by Sealion II using a surface Radar attack. The Awa maru was sunk by Queenfish by radar in dense fog. Four torpedoes were fired and all hit.