So, you think SH4 is too easy even on the hardest?...

[CybrSlydr]

How many of you who think that played SH3?

I've been wondering, especially for those realism nazis (hehehe) - maybe the game is easier because, by comparison, it was easier to be a US Sub Captain than a German Kaleun?

Thoughts?

At first blush, I'd say yes.

The Japanese never really had any sort of ASW until near the end, and it was even just... drecht.

How many years was it until they actually set their depth charges to detonate lower than 100ft? You'd be invulnerable if you went to 150ft.

Etc.

So, to make the game more difficult, you'd be making it less realistic.

Odd, eh?

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by CybrSlydr

How many of you who think that played SH3?

I've been wondering, especially for those realism nazis (hehehe) - maybe the game is easier because, by comparison, it was easier to be a US Sub Captain than a German Kaleun?

Thoughts?

At first blush, I'd say yes.

The Japanese never really had any sort of ASW until near the end, and it was even just... drecht.

How many years was it until they actually set their depth charges to detonate lower than 100ft? You'd be invulnerable if you went to 150ft.

Etc.

So, to make the game more difficult, you'd be making it less realistic.

Odd, eh?

Thoughts?

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but you might want to read the very detailed book 'Silent Vicory'. American sub commanders did fear Japanese escorts in the beginning of the war. Most of the sub commanders in the beginning of the war were too cautious when making attacks. American subs were already being lost as early as spring 1942 due to Japanese ASW ships. Not a large amount, but it happened. And some of the US subs that survived Japanese depth charge attacks as early as 1942 described the attacks as being 'brutal', lasting hours, and the damaged sustained as 'heavy'. So, yes, the Japanese actually did have decent ASW capability as early as 1942. Not great, but decent. And of course, a lot of it also depended on the skill and agressiveness of the Japanese ASW crews.

[DeePsix501]

From what i'm reading in "Take Her Deep" The skipper of the USS Halibut who wrote the buck describes life in the pacific as a walk in the park. Sure at the end of the war the Germans began having it harder, because they were losing. At the start of the war, We only really had a handful of subs and had to rush a bunch out to the pacific. We had a lot of sugar boats and early sargos. Each theater of war had it's differences and difficulties and should be considered within each own context.

I think I can surely say that the Pacific Theater for subs was in no way easy

[Ducimus]

http://www.valoratsea.com/losses1.htm

I think this pretty much spells it out.

Personnaly, i dont give a damn about how easy or tough japanese ASW was historically. Im modding my own game to give me a challenge, else ill get bored.

[rascal101]

I take it all back, I was a realism Nazi playing a....Nazi sub commander in SH3, it took a while but eventually the moders got some decent ASW behavious oout of the escorts.

So along came SH$ and I had a good bitch about the graphics etc, I must admit I have got my machine to cope now. So now to the Jap escorts and destroyers, at first I tyhought they were a push over, but the more I play the better they seem . Sure some are just plain dumb, but others are not and they are the ones who have creamed me, usually in the first and sometimes always in the second tour of duty.
So no they aint dumb, (the Japs) and I aint so clever.

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but you might want to read the very detailed book 'Silent Vicory'. American sub commanders did fear Japanese escorts in the beginning of the war. Most of the sub commanders in the beginning of the war were too cautious when making attacks. American subs were already being lost as early as spring 1942 due to Japanese ASW ships. Not a large amount, but it happened. And some of the US subs that survived Japanese depth charge attacks as early as 1942 described the attacks as being 'brutal', lasting hours, and the damaged sustained as 'heavy'. So, yes, the Japanese actually did have decent ASW capability as early as 1942. Not great, but decent. And of course, a lot of it also depended on the skill and agressiveness of the Japanese ASW crews.

[Grothesj2]

I've seen the range from tottally incompetent to frightfully good, just like RL I suppose.

[Blood_splat]

Play NYGM mod for SH III you'll be depth charged for 6 to 8 hours and no time skipping.:p

[Marko]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

http://www.valoratsea.com/losses1.htm

I think this pretty much spells it out.

Personnaly, i dont give a damn about how easy or tough japanese ASW was historically. Im modding my own game to give me a challenge, else ill get bored.

i am with you

[AVGWarhawk]

I have come upon very good DD and not so good DD. I also found out the AI merchants will ram you as well. I do not remember merchant AI in SH3 attempting to ram me. DD did for sure but not the merchies.

Last night my torps missed a merchie, I surface 800 yards off for cannon action. The SOB stopped and then headed right at me I was in emergancy reverse. He scrapped along my side. I was able to sink him and then I blasted the life raft out of the water because I was PO'd he did that. Thus far I'm satisfied with the DD.

[Grothesj2]

I too have had a merchant come right at me though in my case it seemed to circle around after I damaged one of his buddies with a torp.

[partyboy]

After several lengthy patrols, more often than not, if I'm spotted by escorts, things go.. badly for me. I've had a pretty hard time avoiding depth charges that usually do enough damage to sink me the first time round.

I have played some war patrols now in career mode, but I'm not very impressed by the AI destroyers. Today I attacked some task forces (some very weak ones that did only have small gunboats), but they where not very dangerous even when you attack them head on by using your deckgun! I also attacked a much larger task force with 6 destroyers, 3 cruisers and some small personal transports today, but after I had sunk the cruisers I wanted to sink the destroyers too. So I fired a torpedo, but this one turned at me (I know this happed during the second WW)! It hit me and I was lucky to be able to blow the ballast and surface the submarine, but on the surface there were those 6 "dangerous" destroyers! The destoyers didn't even attack me even though they where 600 meters away from me and I had no ability to escape because the torpedo had hit my engine room. The next 20 minutes my crew fired at multiple ships while repairing the damage on the surface to my ship. One destroyer ramed me, but not even one destroyer fired his gunturrets! I have to admit it was dark and there where high waves, but in SH3 the escorts whould have shot me to pieces and these escorts didn't do a thing even though they saw me ( I think ) because the aimed there search lights at me, but they didn't keep the search lights aimed on me like the escorts would have done in SH3. An other destroyer moved in front of my surfaced boat and droppet depth charges! I know that submarines attack at night because they where not seen so easily, but this is rediculous! Does they enemy in SH4 ever fire their turrets the way the did in SH3 and is this a bug?

[NefariousKoel]

I've had plenty DDs fire at me. Hell, practically every one of the Merchants I've surfaced to finish off with the deck gun are armed and firing at me.

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

I've had plenty DDs fire at me. Hell, practically every one of the Merchants I've surfaced to finish off with the deck gun are armed and firing at me.

I did start the career in 1941 with the Asian submarine fleet (I believe that was the name) and up till now I have only been in Indonesian (Dutch east Indian) waters. Some war vessels did fire at me (and I have been attacked once up till now by a merchant which was traveling in convoy), but very inaccurate and slow (or not at all). How fast do war vessels respond with you guys? And how long does it take them to reload. I have also noticed that the enemy isn't very able to spot you from a great or even medium (to compare it with SH3) range, maybe because I used a S class submarine (which is quite small compared to the other subs). And once the enemy notices you they aren't very keen on using there turrets from a long range. Sometimes I even wonder if the turrets work (just like the "decorative" battleshipturrets in SH3).