Stupid Politician tricks: Uniquely American?

Enigma · 04-05-07, 12:55 PM

Looking for some insight from our over-seas readers around here....

Here in the US, there is a bizarre thing that happens to people running for President. They all feel the need to portray themselves as a good-old0boy, hunting, man's man. Kerry did it before the last election with his joke of a "hunting trip" ..(Because as you know, when you go hunting, you bring the press corps...) Bush has his dopey "brush clearing" and "ranch work" which, again, the press corps joins in on, and now this from Mitt Romney:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/....ap/index.html

Quote:

BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- In boasting about his lifelong experience as a hunter, Mitt Romney may have shot himself in the foot.
The Republican presidential contender has told audiences on several occasions, most recently this week in gun-savvy -- and early voting -- New Hampshire, that he has been a longtime hunter. But it turns out he has been on only two hunting trips.
Critics said it was the latest example of a White House aspirant willing to say anything to reach the Oval Office.

"I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I've been a hunter pretty much all my life," he told a man sporting a National Rifle Association cap.
Yet the former Massachusetts governor's hunting experience came during two trips at the bookends of his 60 years: as a 15-year-old, when he hunted rabbits with his cousins on a ranch in Idaho, and last year, when he shot quail on a fenced game preserve in Georgia.

So, I was curious if this happens in the elections of other countries, too. Does Chirac go rock climbing? Does Blair take the press on a fishing trip? Or is just here in America that politicians seem to believe they have to have some fantasy make believe macho hobby in order to be elected? :hmm:

Letum · 04-05-07, 01:04 PM

Not in the UK.
I am sure we have had a PM in the past who was involved with something like this, but I can't remember it ever being used as a photo opportunity etc.

In fact, our current PM banned hunting with dogs!
The thought of any political leaders doing "ranch work" is laughable.

I would like to think this is because the English are more cynical about their leaders, even when they support them.

The Avon Lady · 04-05-07, 01:06 PM

This is what happens when society would most probably accuse candidates of pedophilia if they kept on kissing babies. :hmm:

PeriscopeDepth · 04-05-07, 01:58 PM

No, it's what happens when a Republican candidate who has supported gun control for most of his career needs to appear conservative (all candidates do this, Dems need to appear more liberal and Republicans more conservative) enough for any hope of winning primaries/caucuses.

PD

The Avon Lady · 04-05-07, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

No, it's what happens when a Republican candidate who has supported gun control for most of his career needs to appear conservative (all candidates do this, Dems need to appear more liberal and Republicans more conservative) enough for any hope of winning primaries/caucuses.

How did Kerry appear more liberal by playing the part of Elmer Fudd?

PeriscopeDepth · 04-05-07, 02:14 PM

All right, I should not have said "all candidates". Granted, Kerry didn't have to run very far left during the primaries because...Well, he was already that far left. A candidate like Clinton definitely will.

PD

SUBMAN1 · 04-05-07, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

How did Kerry appear more liberal by playing the part of Elmer Fudd?

He didn't but since he is also J. Kerry, he had no clue anyway so nothings new.

-S

TteFAboB · 04-05-07, 02:17 PM

There's a country somewhere in Asia (that narrows it down doesn't it

) where candidates are expected to brawl with other candidates, random people, policemen, anybody.

SUBMAN1 · 04-05-07, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

There's a country somewhere in Asia (that narrows it down doesn't it

) where candidates are expected to brawl with other candidates, random people, policemen, anybody.

I think all Asian countries do that don't they? I've even seen brawls in Japanese debates

bradclark1 · 04-05-07, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

There's a country somewhere in Asia (that narrows it down doesn't it

) where candidates are expected to brawl with other candidates, random people, policemen, anybody.

I'm all for that. Maybe Arnie could become president then.

Rykaird · 04-06-07, 02:49 PM

To answer the the question proposed in the title of your thread, no, stupid politician tricks are not uniquely American. They are worldwide, and have been around since man first sought political power.

The idea is to demonstrate alignment with the belief systems of key voting blocs. What IS uniquely American is that one of these belief systems is that a real American is a rugged, macho type. Remember when Al Gore, during the debate with Bush, suddenly left his podium, and strode across the stage menacingly towards Bush while Bush was speaking? He was hoping to provoke a flinch, so that the big news out of the debate would be that Bush was intimidated by Gore. It didn't work - Bush just kept talking, smiled at him and made some small comment. It ranks as one of the most bizarre moments in US presidential debates. But it does show the importance the US voting public puts on "toughness".

By the way, this is no different than Hilary walking around saying that "my religious faith influences every one of my political decisions", her sudden and visible return to regular Sunday churchgoing, all the while carrying the biggest bible she could find. She knows a big chunk of voters are religious, so poof - she starts demonstrating that alignment. You can argue whether she really is a practicing Christian - I won't, because I can't read her mind - but it is fair to say that the level with which she portrays herself as a Christian has dramatically increased.

In other countries, with different belief systems, demographics, psychographics, and voting blocs, the issues are different. But the stupid tricks are just the way the game is played. It is up to us voters to try to see beyond the tricks and make guesses about what policies the politician will actually implement if elected.

John Channing · 04-06-07, 07:12 PM

The problem is not that they are tying to appease left or right... it that they are trying to appear as "just plain folks".

The problem started with the Kennedy administration and the de-mystifying of the Whitehouse. The advent of television and an out-of control press corps opened up the Whitehouse in a way that the American public had never seen before.

All well and good, but because of this de-mystification people began to believe that anyone could do the job. Ronald Regan did not get elected because he had a firm grasp of policy or any particular vision that resonated with the American people (other than making irresponsible threats against countries that had a different system of Govt.), he got elected because people liked him. He is still fondly refered to as "Uncle Ronnie".

People want to elect some that they think they would like. Instead of electing the smartest guy in class, they vote for the one they like the most, that frat boy. I like my next door neighbour, but I sure as hell don't want him running the country.

So now the world finds it's self in a position where the President of the most powerful country on earth has absolutely no clue where most of the other countries on earth are located, let alone possessing the flexibility of intelect that is required to deal with them in a responsible, intelligent and successful manner. leader who gives everyone childish nicknames (Pootie-Poo anyone) and thinks it is funny to mug for the cameras.

This lack of, let's call it intellectual engagement, also leads him to be manipulated by some genuinely evil people and corporations.

But the American (and Canadian) people still want to elect someone that doesn't make them feel stupid, someone they would invite over for a BBQ and a few beers. So we are subjected to endless parades of nozzleheads, posing in the woods, or at a Basball game, or community BBQ, being "just plain folks".... while the string of stretch limos is idling just off camera to take them back to the private jet to fly them to the next "just plain folks" photo op with, hopefully, a short stopover at the Presidential Suite at the Luxury hotel they are staying in.

Don't blame them...blame yourself. They are just giving you what you want.

JCC

Enigma · 04-06-07, 07:15 PM

I was totally going to applaud this post until I got to this part...

Quote:

Don't blame them...blame yourself. They are just giving you what you want.

i agree with damn near everything you said here, but those of us who actually pay attention and form an educated opinion arent getting what we want. Sadly, it seems we are the minority.

Yahoshua · 04-06-07, 08:29 PM

Judging politicians is kinda like playing hopscotch, ya just don't know what to expect when they're on camera.

And the only way to judge who a candidate really is who they say they are is via their voting record. (I looked but there doesn't seem to be a database of Romneys' voting record at the moment).

John Channing · 04-06-07, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

I was totally going to applaud this post until I got to this part...

Quote:

Don't blame them...blame yourself. They are just giving you what you want.

i agree with damn near everything you said here, but those of us who actually pay attention and form an educated opinion arent getting what we want. Sadly, it seems we are the minority.

It's not an original thought...

"In a democracy, people usually get the kind of government they deserve, and they deserve what they get.”

JCC

04-05-07, 01:04 PM	#2
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Not in the UK. I am sure we have had a PM in the past who was involved with something like this, but I can't remember it ever being used as a photo opportunity etc. In fact, our current PM banned hunting with dogs! The thought of any political leaders doing "ranch work" is laughable. I would like to think this is because the English are more cynical about their leaders, even when they support them. __________________

04-05-07, 01:06 PM	#3
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	This is what happens when society would most probably accuse candidates of pedophilia if they kept on kissing babies. :hmm: __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

04-05-07, 02:17 PM	#8
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	There's a country somewhere in Asia (that narrows it down doesn't it ) where candidates are expected to brawl with other candidates, random people, policemen, anybody. __________________ "Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." ("All that is exaggerated is insignificant.") - Talleyrand

04-06-07, 07:12 PM	#12
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 163 Uploads: 5	The problem is not that they are tying to appease left or right... it that they are trying to appear as "just plain folks". The problem started with the Kennedy administration and the de-mystifying of the Whitehouse. The advent of television and an out-of control press corps opened up the Whitehouse in a way that the American public had never seen before. All well and good, but because of this de-mystification people began to believe that anyone could do the job. Ronald Regan did not get elected because he had a firm grasp of policy or any particular vision that resonated with the American people (other than making irresponsible threats against countries that had a different system of Govt.), he got elected because people liked him. He is still fondly refered to as "Uncle Ronnie". People want to elect some that they think they would like. Instead of electing the smartest guy in class, they vote for the one they like the most, that frat boy. I like my next door neighbour, but I sure as hell don't want him running the country. So now the world finds it's self in a position where the President of the most powerful country on earth has absolutely no clue where most of the other countries on earth are located, let alone possessing the flexibility of intelect that is required to deal with them in a responsible, intelligent and successful manner. leader who gives everyone childish nicknames (Pootie-Poo anyone) and thinks it is funny to mug for the cameras. This lack of, let's call it intellectual engagement, also leads him to be manipulated by some genuinely evil people and corporations. But the American (and Canadian) people still want to elect someone that doesn't make them feel stupid, someone they would invite over for a BBQ and a few beers. So we are subjected to endless parades of nozzleheads, posing in the woods, or at a Basball game, or community BBQ, being "just plain folks".... while the string of stretch limos is idling just off camera to take them back to the private jet to fly them to the next "just plain folks" photo op with, hopefully, a short stopover at the Presidential Suite at the Luxury hotel they are staying in. Don't blame them...blame yourself. They are just giving you what you want. JCC Last edited by John Channing; 04-06-07 at 09:59 PM.

04-06-07, 08:29 PM	#14
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Judging politicians is kinda like playing hopscotch, ya just don't know what to expect when they're on camera. And the only way to judge who a candidate really is who they say they are is via their voting record. (I looked but there doesn't seem to be a database of Romneys' voting record at the moment). __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

04-05-07, 01:58 PM	#4
PeriscopeDepth Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,894 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	No, it's what happens when a Republican candidate who has supported gun control for most of his career needs to appear conservative (all candidates do this, Dems need to appear more liberal and Republicans more conservative) enough for any hope of winning primaries/caucuses. PD

04-05-07, 02:14 PM	#6
PeriscopeDepth Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,894 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	All right, I should not have said "all candidates". Granted, Kerry didn't have to run very far left during the primaries because...Well, he was already that far left. A candidate like Clinton definitely will. PD

04-06-07, 02:49 PM	#11
Rykaird Weps Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 356 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	To answer the the question proposed in the title of your thread, no, stupid politician tricks are not uniquely American. They are worldwide, and have been around since man first sought political power. The idea is to demonstrate alignment with the belief systems of key voting blocs. What IS uniquely American is that one of these belief systems is that a real American is a rugged, macho type. Remember when Al Gore, during the debate with Bush, suddenly left his podium, and strode across the stage menacingly towards Bush while Bush was speaking? He was hoping to provoke a flinch, so that the big news out of the debate would be that Bush was intimidated by Gore. It didn't work - Bush just kept talking, smiled at him and made some small comment. It ranks as one of the most bizarre moments in US presidential debates. But it does show the importance the US voting public puts on "toughness". By the way, this is no different than Hilary walking around saying that "my religious faith influences every one of my political decisions", her sudden and visible return to regular Sunday churchgoing, all the while carrying the biggest bible she could find. She knows a big chunk of voters are religious, so poof - she starts demonstrating that alignment. You can argue whether she really is a practicing Christian - I won't, because I can't read her mind - but it is fair to say that the level with which she portrays herself as a Christian has dramatically increased. In other countries, with different belief systems, demographics, psychographics, and voting blocs, the issues are different. But the stupid tricks are just the way the game is played. It is up to us voters to try to see beyond the tricks and make guesses about what policies the politician will actually implement if elected.