Not happy with SH4? Write your own!

longam · 03-29-07, 05:45 PM

Learning to Program.
If you want to be a great game programmer, the first thing you must excel at is math. Not just adding and subtracting. I'm talking about Linear Algebra, Geometric Functions, Physics, etc. If you aren't good at math, you might want to re-think your desire. Or, if you still want to work in the game industry, consider being a designer or graphics artist (right now, the ratio of programmers to artists for most major games is anywhere from 1:5 to 1:30). Knowing math is a good first step, but there's a lot more to it. You will also need to have mastery of:

• Computer Languages: Notice I didn't use the singular term. You should master several languages to understand the nuances of each. Sure, you'll probably want to focus on C++ or C#, but should also learn dynamic languages like Python, Lua, or Ruby.

• Data structures: Not just knowing how to use STL or System.Collections.Generic, but also what _kind_ of structure to use in a specific situation

• Floating Point Numbers: This may seem strange, but most programmers don't _really_ understand floating point numbers (quick: can you describe the difference between "accuracy" and "precision" to your non-technical next-door neighbor?). I recommend reading David Goldberg's "What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic".

• Programming Tools: Learn how to master every tool you have. Debuggers, profilers, editors, linkers, etc. These things will save you hours upon hours of heartache. And while you're at it...use the latest stuff. If you're still using Visual Studio 6, stop. Technology moves fast, and you're not doing yourself any favors by using 7-year old tools to write a modern game. If you can't afford high-end versions of Visual Studio, consider using Visual Studio Express, which uses the same optimizing C++ compiler (or CLR) that is in the full version. Also, learn how to use the powerful tools that come for free in the DirectX SDK like PIX.

• Computer Architectures: As more and more machines move to dual-core (or more) configurations, you need to be much more aware of the nuances of each type of CPU. Yes, the compiler does a lot of the hard work for you, but you really can't master the craft of writing high-performance games without knowing the CPU. If you're writing managed code, you have the additional task of needing to know the CLR inside and out.

Simple huh?

Spaxspore · 03-29-07, 05:52 PM

why should we, when we put down 50$ expecting a completed product, with minor bugs if any???

joea · 03-29-07, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longam

Simple huh?

Yup off to learn and prgram the ultimate everything sim, or "Holodeck" version 1.0

See you in 25 years. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Hats off to programmers.

Mud · 03-29-07, 05:57 PM

I'm to dumb for that , I use also auto TDC.
Me more a gamer not Einstein.

Mud

Bum · 03-29-07, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaxspore

why should we, when we put down 50$ expecting a completed product, with minor bugs if any???

That's what you expected? From a computer game??? NOOB :rotfl:

SharpShin · 03-29-07, 06:12 PM

Didn't work.

Linavitch · 03-29-07, 06:19 PM

I see where you're coming from with your post and I for one haven't posted any bad vibe posts. However, consumers are entitled to get what they pay for. It is an alarming trend how software is released in the way it is these days. I know the reasons why it happens but I'm still not sure if it is 'right'.

For what it's worth I haven't actually encountered many critical bugs with SH4 and the realism/gameplay issues are the designers brief IMO. and I know we got all them great modders to fix them issues.

(I just wish my pen worked underwater

)

Drokkon · 03-29-07, 06:27 PM

Should a programmer need to know how to run a powerplant and wire transformers before he complains about power shortages that keeps him from programming? No. When you pay your electric bill you expect uninterupted service barring any acts of god. I don't see why a finished product after spending $50 seems impossible.

I guess with the do it yourself attitude we would all have out-houses,gardens and chickens.

StandingCow · 03-29-07, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharpShin

Didn't work.

LOL! :rotfl:

I tried my hand at C++ in college... I hated it.

Seminole · 03-29-07, 06:32 PM

I don't program games for the same reason I don't cut my own lawn, change my own oil, or do my own dental work.

That is, there are people who do that sort of a thing for a living. I don't. Besides it would take all the fun out of it if you knew all the intricate nuts and bolts of it. Same as making missions with mission builders. They are a lot of fun to make but not much fun to play because you are fully aware before hand what is going to happen.

But back to not doing DIY gaming....I don't cut my lawnman dentist, or mechanic much slack. I expect a first class job. They deliver or I call someone else in. Why don't I demand that of game makers...well...its simply that there isn't a whole lot of alternative choices in realistic simming. I won't play console games. Ditto for racing, fantasy, or sports PC games.

brieder · 03-29-07, 06:58 PM

Ok, I am a senior engineer for a game company. Trust me, the developers want to do a good job. Schedule and budgets set by managers say otherwise. Just the general trend.

03-29-07, 07:03 PM

If SH4 were a free open source game...I would not complain.

But seeing how I preordered the game, and loved SH3...Ima complain till:

A) Im blue in the face or...

B) the bugs are fixed.

brieder · 03-29-07, 07:04 PM

I'm not saying you can't complain.

But from the projects I've worked on, the developers/artists care...management doesn't.

Linavitch · 03-29-07, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brieder

I'm not saying you can't complain.

But from the projects I've worked on, the developers/artists care...management doesn't.

I get this at work all the time. I'm a manager and the staff accuse the management of not giving a toss. But I work for the same company, the same profits pay my wages. There's no 'I' in team (but there is 'me' if you look hard enough!).

partyboy · 03-29-07, 07:10 PM

I guess you're not allowed to criticize a movie unless you're willing to spend a few million dollars making your own, either.

03-29-07, 05:45 PM	#1
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Not happy with SH4? Write your own! Learning to Program. If you want to be a great game programmer, the first thing you must excel at is math. Not just adding and subtracting. I'm talking about Linear Algebra, Geometric Functions, Physics, etc. If you aren't good at math, you might want to re-think your desire. Or, if you still want to work in the game industry, consider being a designer or graphics artist (right now, the ratio of programmers to artists for most major games is anywhere from 1:5 to 1:30). Knowing math is a good first step, but there's a lot more to it. You will also need to have mastery of: • Computer Languages: Notice I didn't use the singular term. You should master several languages to understand the nuances of each. Sure, you'll probably want to focus on C++ or C#, but should also learn dynamic languages like Python, Lua, or Ruby. • Data structures: Not just knowing how to use STL or System.Collections.Generic, but also what _kind_ of structure to use in a specific situation • Floating Point Numbers: This may seem strange, but most programmers don't _really_ understand floating point numbers (quick: can you describe the difference between "accuracy" and "precision" to your non-technical next-door neighbor?). I recommend reading David Goldberg's "What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic". • Programming Tools: Learn how to master every tool you have. Debuggers, profilers, editors, linkers, etc. These things will save you hours upon hours of heartache. And while you're at it...use the latest stuff. If you're still using Visual Studio 6, stop. Technology moves fast, and you're not doing yourself any favors by using 7-year old tools to write a modern game. If you can't afford high-end versions of Visual Studio, consider using Visual Studio Express, which uses the same optimizing C++ compiler (or CLR) that is in the full version. Also, learn how to use the powerful tools that come for free in the DirectX SDK like PIX. • Computer Architectures: As more and more machines move to dual-core (or more) configurations, you need to be much more aware of the nuances of each type of CPU. Yes, the compiler does a lot of the hard work for you, but you really can't master the craft of writing high-performance games without knowing the CPU. If you're writing managed code, you have the additional task of needing to know the CLR inside and out. Simple huh?

03-29-07, 05:52 PM	#2
Spaxspore Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 399 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	why should we, when we put down 50$ expecting a completed product, with minor bugs if any??? __________________ Behold, the Glory of the Sh4 engine..... Morning strole off Tokyo Bay...

03-29-07, 06:19 PM	#7
Linavitch Officer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hull Posts: 239 Downloads: 170 Uploads: 0	I see where you're coming from with your post and I for one haven't posted any bad vibe posts. However, consumers are entitled to get what they pay for. It is an alarming trend how software is released in the way it is these days. I know the reasons why it happens but I'm still not sure if it is 'right'. For what it's worth I haven't actually encountered many critical bugs with SH4 and the realism/gameplay issues are the designers brief IMO. and I know we got all them great modders to fix them issues. (I just wish my pen worked underwater)

03-29-07, 06:27 PM	#8
Drokkon Loader Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 90 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Should a programmer need to know how to run a powerplant and wire transformers before he complains about power shortages that keeps him from programming? No. When you pay your electric bill you expect uninterupted service barring any acts of god. I don't see why a finished product after spending $50 seems impossible. I guess with the do it yourself attitude we would all have out-houses,gardens and chickens. __________________

03-29-07, 05:57 PM	#4
Mud Captain Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 541 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	I'm to dumb for that , I use also auto TDC. Me more a gamer not Einstein. Mud

03-29-07, 06:12 PM	#6
SharpShin Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 47 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Didn't work.

03-29-07, 06:32 PM	#10
Seminole Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,012 Downloads: 102 Uploads: 0	I don't program games for the same reason I don't cut my own lawn, change my own oil, or do my own dental work. That is, there are people who do that sort of a thing for a living. I don't. Besides it would take all the fun out of it if you knew all the intricate nuts and bolts of it. Same as making missions with mission builders. They are a lot of fun to make but not much fun to play because you are fully aware before hand what is going to happen. But back to not doing DIY gaming....I don't cut my lawnman dentist, or mechanic much slack. I expect a first class job. They deliver or I call someone else in. Why don't I demand that of game makers...well...its simply that there isn't a whole lot of alternative choices in realistic simming. I won't play console games. Ditto for racing, fantasy, or sports PC games.

03-29-07, 06:58 PM	#11
brieder Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ok, I am a senior engineer for a game company. Trust me, the developers want to do a good job. Schedule and budgets set by managers say otherwise. Just the general trend.

03-29-07, 07:03 PM	#12
Grunt Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	If SH4 were a free open source game...I would not complain. But seeing how I preordered the game, and loved SH3...Ima complain till: A) Im blue in the face or... B) the bugs are fixed.

03-29-07, 07:04 PM	#13
brieder Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm not saying you can't complain. But from the projects I've worked on, the developers/artists care...management doesn't.

03-29-07, 07:10 PM	#15
partyboy Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 106 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	I guess you're not allowed to criticize a movie unless you're willing to spend a few million dollars making your own, either.