Is SH4 merely a rehash of SH3?

[Iron Budokan]

Sad to say, Beery, you're gonna be disappointed. (I was, too.) You can't interact via the 3d like you could in the control room in SH3. You gotta use the icons in SH4....

Gentlemen! Give us time!!!
I to hate alot of things, but keep digging to
correct what needs corrected.
We will fix this beast!!!
And if the GWX team comes at it?
God help us all!
We'll all be divorced, shunned,
and locked away in some sleazy motel Hell!
Playing our game a muttering
"I just need a few more fathoms Scotty!!!"
:rotfl: :rotfl:

[Beery]

Originally Posted by sandbag69

of course its an upgraded SH3 set in the Pacific. What did u expect Sh4 to be Nuke powered subs firing Trident missiles.

Hehe, that would have REALLY been disappointing. No, what I expected was an upgrade to SH3 that went a bit beyond graphics and which added many more of the sorts of things the mod community did for SH3. But SH4 is not that. Basically, as far as I can see so far, SH4 is SH3 with improved graphics, with an expanded gramophone giving a sort of radiomod/newsmod functionality that the mod community gave to SH3 and without the 3D compartment interface that came as standard in SH3.

I just feel the game should have been more. But it's first impressions right now, and SH3 was also a bit of a pig that needed some heavy-duty lipstick applied to it. So we'll see what the future brings.

[vois2]

Right now, SH4 in career mode is endlessly frustrating due to bugs and inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

Notice I said "right now" and I have limited my critique to "career mode" only.

I know much of this will be fixed by patches and by the modders around here. I have to say that I cringe each time I read of someone saying they are going back to SH3, because we need our best minds at work to get SH4 running with accuracy. It's not any of our jobs, but it must be our passion as we keep coming back for more sub sims.

Ironically, the devs right now need more interaction and input from the expert core hard simmers, not less. You can see them responding to issues in the threads. I hate to see the best minds running away. (I am not claiming this is happening a lot, but a mind is a terrible thing to lose...)

[JackChen]

Well, perhaps SH4 would have been better as an expansion to SH3 so that you can jolly well link the Atlantic to the Pacific.

Maybe you will see that in SH5 - World War II (the entire world) plus you may even see fish this time and whales that you have to avoid ramming into.

[ryuzu]

Originally Posted by Beery

Hehe, that would have REALLY been disappointing. No, what I expected was an upgrade to SH3 that went a bit beyond graphics and which added many more of the sorts of things the mod community did for SH3. But SH4 is not that. Basically, as far as I can see so far, SH4 is SH3 with improved graphics, with an expanded gramophone giving a sort of radiomod/newsmod functionality that the mod community gave to SH3 and without the 3D compartment interface that came as standard in SH3.

I just feel the game should have been more. But it's first impressions right now, and SH3 was also a bit of a pig that needed some heavy-duty lipstick applied to it. So we'll see what the future brings.

Yours is an unpopular viewpoint with many people here, and I'm surprised so far no one has called you a whiner/moaner/hater or whatever.

SH4 is a modified SH3 - but then again, it was basically sold as that. The problem is for anyone who wanted a simulation, SH4 is a regression - if you're primarily interested in graphics then I guess for a week or two you'll be happy (and then be bored and off to the next thing).

I think the devs missed a trick to build on SH3 (and the mods of course) and in the end took the "easy" graphical update while ignoring the more subtle and complex realism features.

However, as I look around SH4 I do see some things that imply that the underlying code has the relevant hooks to make lots of things work, but they are not working at the moment.

For example, in the 3D view, you can click on the some of the crew - the Chief Engineer and Navigator will look at you if you click on them. You can jump into the shoes of the Helmsman, the Sonar and the Radar guys. The question is, can we make use of these bits, will they need to be enabled in a patch, can they be modded.... Lots of unknown elements.

There's also files implying more detailed malfunction & damage modelling (e.g. Periscope misalignment) and also injuries to the crew (broken arms, "It's just a scratch").

So there was/is some intent in SH4 to bring more meaningful features to the game - will we see them operable one day or not?

The encrypted .exe will make any code hacking difficult so we're reliant on the devs helping out...

r.

[1mPHUNit0]

Totally incomplete and no sdk ....

[Beery]

Originally Posted by ryuzu

Yours is an unpopular viewpoint with many people here, and I'm surprised so far no one has called you a whiner/moaner/hater or whatever.

Considering the work I've done modding SH3 it's going to be hard for anyone to make me seem like just a spoiler. What I'm really trying to do is figure out for myself whether I want to go through that hassle again for SH4.

[Immacolata]

It is a surefire thing that without extensive modding SHIV will be played and forgotten by many of us in a month. I can't blame people really, SHIV has a budget feel over it in its current state of reused things. Its still fun however, at least for someone who didnt spend 1000s of hours poring over the files SH3 to make it better.

I guess that patching will decide this more than anything.

[Spin Doctor]

Originally Posted by ryuzu

Yours is an unpopular viewpoint with many people here, and I'm surprised so far no one has called you a whiner/moaner/hater or whatever.... <snip>

r.

Since Beery is one of the original of the great SH3 modders, I think he's more than entitled and qualified to make whatever comment he wants on the state of SH4.

Also since most people seem to be waiting with baited breath for the modders to fix this new sim, it's not a foregone conclusion that those who are able have either the time or desire to do the same with SH4. We're talking literally years of research and work going into building the GWX mod.

I think that if you're expecting the same for SH4, it's best not to bite the hand that feeds you.

[Ducimus]

The biggest detractor is that it used SH3's as a base. Theres ALOT of leftover misc stuff from SH3 in it. This however, is a good thing in terms of modding.

Offhand i suspect the bulk of the new stuff lays in the subs themselves, damage/crew controls,TDC, and campaign.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Beery

Considering the work I've done modding SH3 it's going to be hard for anyone to make me seem like just a spoiler. What I'm really trying to do is figure out for myself whether I want to go through that hassle again for SH4.

You can look at it this way, you know how the engine works and the thought behind each file. You got this from working the SH3 mods. So you have half the issue beat already. I do not believe the project will be as big as you are thinking. But, hey, I'm whining please please please consider it

[ryuzu]

Originally Posted by Beery

Considering the work I've done modding SH3 it's going to be hard for anyone to make me seem like just a spoiler. What I'm really trying to do is figure out for myself whether I want to go through that hassle again for SH4.

Exactly - if not for your illustrious modding efforts of several sims, I suspect you would have come in for a bit of a bashing

I can understand your position entirely - there isn't a great deal to really get a person excited from the simulation perspective. I hope the seemingly unimplemented parts of the game can be activated through a patch (and ideally even made to work well without modding) but SH2, 3 and now 4 have had so many issues, you just begin to assume the worst.

r.

[StandingCow]

Updated engine. And ya know what, I am very happy with an updated SH3, it was and still is a great game. Now that they have better graphics its that much better imo.

If sales keep up the way they are, they may make enough money to make SH5 with an all new engine. Who knows.

[Beery]

I'm sure there will be an SH5. I just wish that when they released a game like this they'd put as much effort into completing the software as they put into making the manual. I was very impressed with the manual which seems a lot bigger than SH3's, but the software was like deja-vu - the same annoying bugs that were in SH3.