Possible TDC bug (auto and manual)

[Observer]

Originally Posted by gnirtS

So point at right part of ship, then enter speed or something into TDC again and fire immediately should send new bearing?

Going to test this now.

I prefer range, but I suppose speed will work (just hit the button to send it to the TDC. No need to recalculate range every time This will update firing bearing and gyro angle). This is how I do it to aim for specific parts of the ship on a non-maneuvering target. For maneuvering targets, you really should use the spread angle as this is how it was really done.

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

I've noticed on both manual and automatic that a LOT of my shots are missing a ways aft. Perhaps gnirts has hit on something here. Oh, and I open my tube door well before firing.

YEP.... noticed this to while shooting 6 torps at 2 LARGE passenger lines. All 6 shots went aft of the liners. I was all of .4 miles from them. I think the error was exaggerated by the fact they were steaming off at 21kts.

Also..is there anyway to open ALL the bloody torp doors at once? I seem to only be able to open my first one. If I open one door, and change tubes and hit Q it closes the first door....

[gnirtS]

Sadly its only 1 door at a time so in reality its about 10-15 seconds between shots by the time you fire, switch, enter spread data, open doors, check and shoot.

[Warden]

Originally Posted by gnirtS

Now for an issue ive found with manual TDC.

Unless im mistaken the TDC will ALWAYS fire at the centre of the ship regardless of where on it your scope is pointed. It seems the bearing isnt automatically sent to the TDC and it just uses the centre bearing.

I don't have the game, but this scares the hell out of me, can somone please do some experiments to determine if this is in fact happening and post the results?

[mookiemookie]

I came searching the forum to see if anyone else was having this problem. Good to see it's not just me! I know I'm no dummy, and I'm opening the doors. I always miss aft though.

So the workaround is to use the spread dial to "lead your target" a few degrees?

[gnirtS]

Just done some more tests and it appears you need to send range to TDC. Didn't work with AOB or speed for me but entering range into TDC and hitting commit does aim where my scope is pointed.

[gnirtS]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I came searching the forum to see if anyone else was having this problem. Good to see it's not just me! I know I'm no dummy, and I'm opening the doors. I always miss aft though.

So the workaround is to use the spread dial to "lead your target" a few degrees?

Assuming you use auto TDC, in which case yes you can use spread or just visually aim a bit in front of where you want to hit

[submariner]

I've played around with this a little bit since my last post, using map contacts 'ON' and setting up shots in the training school.

The Pos-Keeper only 'marks' to a new target 'bearing' if fed position data from sonar, radar, or the RANGE dial ....... it ignores scope bearing when fed SPEED or AOB - it will just change the gyro-angle to the currently tracked target (last 'mark') for SPEED or AOB update.

The fired torpedo usually hits the white 'tracking X' on the attack map plot.

I think the aft shot problem may be due to a slight delay when the torp is fired, possibly something to do with the tube door not open fully yet. I have been shooting right after opening the tube. So the gyro is a little aft ... which will make a big difference in 1200 yard shots .... it may not be a software bug.

But the range is way off as calculated by the stadimeter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So for multiple quick shots at different targets you can do one of two things:

1. Torp away ..... then rotate scope to new target ..... click RANGE feed button..... this will change the torpedo gyro based on the new scope bearing while keeping the same range ..... the speed is probably the same .... just need to also update AOB for the new target (does not auto change with the new scope bearing).

This is kind of slow .... plus you have to select a new tube and open the tube door.

2. The other way, set up to about 90 degrees to target path .... manually input RANGE to the path (with scope at 0 degrees), set SPEED as usual, and set AOB to 90 ...... DO NOT TURN ON THE Pos-Keeper. This will fire any torp straight ahead but offset by the proper gyro-angle for any ship at 0 (typically 5-20 degrees lead).

So you can just sit there and fire torps as your target(s) point(s) cross 0 degrees on the scope.

You can verify the above using the attack map with 'show contacts' ON.

------------------

I don't like to use 'LOCK' ...... Germans or US or Japanese did not have magic 'LOCK' buttons.

The range dial is a pain ..... when I try to set manually by rotating the ring .... it locks and will not go past 1100 yards !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Stad is way off.

I guess I will not get 1,000,000 tons in the Pacific Theater.

In SH3 I played on 100% for 41 patrols during the war (died about 12 times but did not restart). I did get one battleship near the end of the war and two liners. I had one 100,000 patrol. It took me all 2 years since SH3 came out to get through the game playing a few times per week for a few hours on avarage (only went through the whole war ONCE!).

[NonWonderDog]

The range dial works correctly, and I like that. You don't set the range, you set the mast height on the outer dial. The inner range dial is set with the stadimeter. You don't even have to push the identify button for each target anymore, just set the mast height manually.

The BIG HUGE ANNOYING PAINFUL problem is that the TDC and stadimeter only work if there's a ship in the crosshair--and then they automatically target the center of the ship. I should be able to target anything I want, including but not limited to open ocean, and the stadimeter button should work whenever I push it. The periscope and TDC should have absolutely no idea if I'm aiming at anything if I'm using the manual mode.

The TDC in the sim does not get its bearing from the periscope, but from the bearing to whatever ship the periscope magically knows about. While I understand that the captain is calling out the bearing angle and isn't limited to whatever the periscope says, I'm the captain, and I should be able to call out whatever angle I want.

[gnirtS]

Its definately not delay due to opening doors/firing causing auto TDC to miss after with me.

Doors opened for 30-60 seconds before and still misses by same amount.

Having done more playing im sure its using slightly too low a speed in the TDC. Just wasted more hours on it.


Manual DOES work if you just click to send range to TDC after placing cursor where you want to hit on the target so at least that fixes that issue. You can verify this again by playing with a stationary target and looking at attack map to see where green line and white X appear. Ive got that working 100% of the time now.

Its only auto TDC it seems thats causing aft shots now, you can aim them but they miss aiming point

[DJSatane]

Originally Posted by heartc

The bearing of the scope/TBT is transmitted the moment you transmit the other data, so you CAN aim with the sight. Don't "lock" the target, that's BS anyway. True, iRL there was a specific "Mark" button for bearing updates, and the lack of one in-game is anoying, but the above is a work-around.

(Now, someone reported you would need to re-enter all three datas for the bearing to update, but I surely had the impression it's enough to re-enter ("send") one information again, like speed for example - and I think I'm right. Anything else wouldn't make sense)

Yes, there is a big flag in SH4, because of this you cannot set a nice simple point to shoot at whatever bearing you looking in a simple way. You have to each time click send data to tdc in stadimeter, aob and speed... otherwise it *WILL NOT* use the bearing you looking at in periscope. This is very annoying, I wish you could click some button so that TDC always uses the bearing you looking at in periscope so that you would have to reenter each section just for the solution to use current bearing of view. We need at least a button mark or send all, or way to turn on tdc update basedon bearing of view all the time. This really makes manual tdc tiresome and annoying for me.

[gnirtS]

Having just played with it im pretty sure you ONLY need to click send range to send a mark to TDC. AOB and Speed didnt do anything but if i just move cursor, send range it seems to update and work.

For now i think im going to use that as a makeshift "MARK" button.

[NefariousKoel]

OK.. I tried a couple things.

Something is definitely off. Here's what I've found that works when fooling around shooting that Mogami at 9kts:

Open tube, set torpedo settings, input range, fire. This would technically still put my fish near the stern or on an aft miss.

For the settings I've found that adding 1 and more likely 2 knots to the target's actual speed helps quite a bit.
Raising the speed +1kt gave me the first hit at center and the last 3 in the aft quarter.
Raising the speed 2kts gave me a hit in the fore, etc. These were all locked on target with no spread.


The other way I tried was seeing how far I should lead my angle spread to achieve the same results. The target was heading right.

When I used +9 deg. right angle it struck under the forward gun area.
When I used +5 deg. right spread angle, the torpedo hit it almost dead center.
With +3 deg. hit it in the aft quarter.
Lastly, +0 degree angle struck the very stern and almost missed.

I'm not sure which 'workaround' will be my one of choice but I'll play with them a bit more and see which is more reliable.

[gnirtS]

Just remember with any of the workarounds distance, its total speed and other factors will affect.

Sadly there isnt one key value to adjust that works everywhere.

I got good results with 3.5 degree spread to bow for 12kts/1200yds and basing things off that.

[heartc]

Originally Posted by gnirtS

Having just played with it im pretty sure you ONLY need to click send range to send a mark to TDC. AOB and Speed didnt do anything but if i just move cursor, send range it seems to update and work.

For now i think im going to use that as a makeshift "MARK" button.

Hm, sorry for the wrong info before. I was pretty sure it didn't matter what data to send again. So it is range. Thanks for sharing!