Possible TDC bug (auto and manual)

NefariousKoel · 03-25-07, 11:46 AM

I've noticed on both manual and automatic that a LOT of my shots are missing a ways aft. Perhaps gnirts has hit on something here. Oh, and I open my tube door well before firing.

gnirtS · 03-25-07, 11:50 AM

Do what i did, create some custom missions.

In the first have a stationary ship at 1000yds and test.

Second mission have ships passing 90 degrees to your path closest 1000 yards and have the ships doing 5kts and try it.

Then alter that mission so theyre doing 10kts, retry, then 15kts, retry and so on.

Stationary it hits dead on, the others its missing aft.

(Auto TDC anyway, speed entry for manual TDC works fine but can only target middle of ships. In manual you can verify your solution by using the attack map and check it matches actual movement. Not possible in auto though).

Ducimus · 03-25-07, 12:19 PM

Only thing i've been able to discern so far, is the torpedo tube doors take forever to open. You issue the command, but it doesnt acutally happen for a few long agonizing seconds later. Not a big deal with your first shot, but a 2nd or 3rd shot and it becomes an issue. My assumption is crew effiecency and management has a role in this.

Anyway, my solution for this delay that has worked for me, has been using the spread angle. If the target is going from right to left, ill set the spread angle about 4 or 5 degrees left (assuming im in close, less degrees if further out) to compensate for the delay. Seems to work fine. I have to admit though, this TDC is going to take ALOT of getting used to, and it does feel like it might have a quirk or two in it somewhere, but i can't quite put my finger on it.

edit:
Also keep in mind its ENTIRELY possible there's an old bug from SH3 that has carried over into SH4. It deals with the torpedo speed selection switch and gyro angle. When changing from steam to electrics (or vice versa), the torpedo speed didnt acutally update even though the selector switch would change to reflect the torpedo being used. You had to click on the speed switch anyway or the gyro woudn't update.

gnirtS · 03-25-07, 12:27 PM

I just open the door of my tube some 30 seconds before taking shot. The misjudged TDC screw up to need spread, last thing i need is to add another factor to it.

This definately isnt an issue with torp speed miscalculated, if that was the case the torpedos would miss by FAR more than they actually are for me.

heartc · 03-25-07, 12:32 PM

All of you are wrong. The bearing of the scope/TBT is transmitted the moment you transmit the other data, so you CAN aim with the sight. Don't "lock" the target, that's BS anyway. True, iRL there was a specific "Mark" button for bearing updates, and the lack of one in-game is anoying, but the above is a work-around.

(Now, someone reported you would need to re-enter all three datas for the bearing to update, but I surely had the impression it's enough to re-enter ("send") one information again, like speed for example - and I think I'm right. Anything else wouldn't make sense)

gnirtS · 03-25-07, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartc

(Now, someone reported you would need to re-enter all three datas for the bearing to update, but I surely had the impression it's enough to re-enter ("send") one information again, like speed for example - and I think I'm right. Anything else wouldn't make sense)

So point at right part of ship, then enter speed or something into TDC again and fire immediately should send new bearing?

Going to test this now.

Observer · 03-25-07, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnirtS

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartc

(Now, someone reported you would need to re-enter all three datas for the bearing to update, but I surely had the impression it's enough to re-enter ("send") one information again, like speed for example - and I think I'm right. Anything else wouldn't make sense)

So point at right part of ship, then enter speed or something into TDC again and fire immediately should send new bearing?

Going to test this now.

I prefer range, but I suppose speed will work (just hit the button to send it to the TDC. No need to recalculate range every time This will update firing bearing and gyro angle). This is how I do it to aim for specific parts of the ship on a non-maneuvering target. For maneuvering targets, you really should use the spread angle as this is how it was really done.

DJSatane · 03-25-07, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartc

The bearing of the scope/TBT is transmitted the moment you transmit the other data, so you CAN aim with the sight. Don't "lock" the target, that's BS anyway. True, iRL there was a specific "Mark" button for bearing updates, and the lack of one in-game is anoying, but the above is a work-around.

(Now, someone reported you would need to re-enter all three datas for the bearing to update, but I surely had the impression it's enough to re-enter ("send") one information again, like speed for example - and I think I'm right. Anything else wouldn't make sense)

Yes, there is a big flag in SH4, because of this you cannot set a nice simple point to shoot at whatever bearing you looking in a simple way. You have to each time click send data to tdc in stadimeter, aob and speed... otherwise it *WILL NOT* use the bearing you looking at in periscope. This is very annoying, I wish you could click some button so that TDC always uses the bearing you looking at in periscope so that you would have to reenter each section just for the solution to use current bearing of view. We need at least a button mark or send all, or way to turn on tdc update basedon bearing of view all the time. This really makes manual tdc tiresome and annoying for me.

gnirtS · 03-25-07, 03:54 PM

Having just played with it im pretty sure you ONLY need to click send range to send a mark to TDC. AOB and Speed didnt do anything but if i just move cursor, send range it seems to update and work.

For now i think im going to use that as a makeshift "MARK" button.

NefariousKoel · 03-25-07, 04:19 PM

OK.. I tried a couple things.

Something is definitely off. Here's what I've found that works when fooling around shooting that Mogami at 9kts:

Open tube, set torpedo settings, input range, fire. This would technically still put my fish near the stern or on an aft miss.

For the settings I've found that adding 1 and more likely 2 knots to the target's actual speed helps quite a bit.
Raising the speed +1kt gave me the first hit at center and the last 3 in the aft quarter.
Raising the speed 2kts gave me a hit in the fore, etc. These were all locked on target with no spread.

The other way I tried was seeing how far I should lead my angle spread to achieve the same results. The target was heading right.

When I used +9 deg. right angle it struck under the forward gun area.
When I used +5 deg. right spread angle, the torpedo hit it almost dead center.
With +3 deg. hit it in the aft quarter.
Lastly, +0 degree angle struck the very stern and almost missed.

I'm not sure which 'workaround' will be my one of choice but I'll play with them a bit more and see which is more reliable.

gnirtS · 03-25-07, 04:51 PM

Just remember with any of the workarounds distance, its total speed and other factors will affect.

Sadly there isnt one key value to adjust that works everywhere.

I got good results with 3.5 degree spread to bow for 12kts/1200yds and basing things off that.

heartc · 03-25-07, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnirtS

Having just played with it im pretty sure you ONLY need to click send range to send a mark to TDC. AOB and Speed didnt do anything but if i just move cursor, send range it seems to update and work.

For now i think im going to use that as a makeshift "MARK" button.

Hm, sorry for the wrong info before. I was pretty sure it didn't matter what data to send again. So it is range. Thanks for sharing!

shawnyp420 · 03-25-07, 07:18 PM

are you talking about the auto-solution?? I've found that the only real way to score a center hit is by using the spread angle.

ReM · 03-25-07, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

I've noticed on both manual and automatic that a LOT of my shots are missing a ways aft. Perhaps gnirts has hit on something here. Oh, and I open my tube door well before firing.

Confirmed....always aft.

RedHammer · 03-25-07, 12:41 PM

I have the same problem with SH3 in the torpedo training mission there, torpedoes go waaaaaaaaaay behind and misses by several hundred metres.
And when I take a look at the TDC in the attack map, I find out, despite of very good measures, that the torpedoes are aimed waay back :S

Try this in Attack map in SH4, get a perfect solution, then take a look at your attack map, if you find the torpedo to hit a little too far behind, use the spread feature to put it a little more ahead. Hence, you may hit the ship exactly where you want to. Works for me on stationary targets. Note: I haven`t tried this on moving targets as I cannot get a good speed solution by obvious reasons.

S! to all

Your Friend in the Pacific

RH

03-25-07, 11:46 AM	#1
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I've noticed on both manual and automatic that a LOT of my shots are missing a ways aft. Perhaps gnirts has hit on something here. Oh, and I open my tube door well before firing. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

03-25-07, 04:19 PM	#10
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	OK.. I tried a couple things. Something is definitely off. Here's what I've found that works when fooling around shooting that Mogami at 9kts: Open tube, set torpedo settings, input range, fire. This would technically still put my fish near the stern or on an aft miss. For the settings I've found that adding 1 and more likely 2 knots to the target's actual speed helps quite a bit. Raising the speed +1kt gave me the first hit at center and the last 3 in the aft quarter. Raising the speed 2kts gave me a hit in the fore, etc. These were all locked on target with no spread. The other way I tried was seeing how far I should lead my angle spread to achieve the same results. The target was heading right. When I used +9 deg. right angle it struck under the forward gun area. When I used +5 deg. right spread angle, the torpedo hit it almost dead center. With +3 deg. hit it in the aft quarter. Lastly, +0 degree angle struck the very stern and almost missed. I'm not sure which 'workaround' will be my one of choice but I'll play with them a bit more and see which is more reliable. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

03-25-07, 11:50 AM	#2
gnirtS Officer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Wales, UK Posts: 237 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Do what i did, create some custom missions. In the first have a stationary ship at 1000yds and test. Second mission have ships passing 90 degrees to your path closest 1000 yards and have the ships doing 5kts and try it. Then alter that mission so theyre doing 10kts, retry, then 15kts, retry and so on. Stationary it hits dead on, the others its missing aft. (Auto TDC anyway, speed entry for manual TDC works fine but can only target middle of ships. In manual you can verify your solution by using the attack map and check it matches actual movement. Not possible in auto though).

03-25-07, 12:19 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Only thing i've been able to discern so far, is the torpedo tube doors take forever to open. You issue the command, but it doesnt acutally happen for a few long agonizing seconds later. Not a big deal with your first shot, but a 2nd or 3rd shot and it becomes an issue. My assumption is crew effiecency and management has a role in this. Anyway, my solution for this delay that has worked for me, has been using the spread angle. If the target is going from right to left, ill set the spread angle about 4 or 5 degrees left (assuming im in close, less degrees if further out) to compensate for the delay. Seems to work fine. I have to admit though, this TDC is going to take ALOT of getting used to, and it does feel like it might have a quirk or two in it somewhere, but i can't quite put my finger on it. edit: Also keep in mind its ENTIRELY possible there's an old bug from SH3 that has carried over into SH4. It deals with the torpedo speed selection switch and gyro angle. When changing from steam to electrics (or vice versa), the torpedo speed didnt acutally update even though the selector switch would change to reflect the torpedo being used. You had to click on the speed switch anyway or the gyro woudn't update.

03-25-07, 12:27 PM	#4
gnirtS Officer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Wales, UK Posts: 237 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I just open the door of my tube some 30 seconds before taking shot. The misjudged TDC screw up to need spread, last thing i need is to add another factor to it. This definately isnt an issue with torp speed miscalculated, if that was the case the torpedos would miss by FAR more than they actually are for me.

03-25-07, 12:32 PM	#5
heartc Samurai Navy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Munich Posts: 562 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	All of you are wrong. The bearing of the scope/TBT is transmitted the moment you transmit the other data, so you CAN aim with the sight. Don't "lock" the target, that's BS anyway. True, iRL there was a specific "Mark" button for bearing updates, and the lack of one in-game is anoying, but the above is a work-around. (Now, someone reported you would need to re-enter all three datas for the bearing to update, but I surely had the impression it's enough to re-enter ("send") one information again, like speed for example - and I think I'm right. Anything else wouldn't make sense)

03-25-07, 03:54 PM	#9
gnirtS Officer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Wales, UK Posts: 237 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Having just played with it im pretty sure you ONLY need to click send range to send a mark to TDC. AOB and Speed didnt do anything but if i just move cursor, send range it seems to update and work. For now i think im going to use that as a makeshift "MARK" button.

03-25-07, 04:51 PM	#11
gnirtS Officer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Wales, UK Posts: 237 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Just remember with any of the workarounds distance, its total speed and other factors will affect. Sadly there isnt one key value to adjust that works everywhere. I got good results with 3.5 degree spread to bow for 12kts/1200yds and basing things off that.

03-25-07, 07:18 PM	#13
shawnyp420 A-ganger Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 78 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	are you talking about the auto-solution?? I've found that the only real way to score a center hit is by using the spread angle.

03-25-07, 12:41 PM	#15
RedHammer Loader Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 88 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	I have the same problem with SH3 in the torpedo training mission there, torpedoes go waaaaaaaaaay behind and misses by several hundred metres. And when I take a look at the TDC in the attack map, I find out, despite of very good measures, that the torpedoes are aimed waay back :S Try this in Attack map in SH4, get a perfect solution, then take a look at your attack map, if you find the torpedo to hit a little too far behind, use the spread feature to put it a little more ahead. Hence, you may hit the ship exactly where you want to. Works for me on stationary targets. Note: I haven`t tried this on moving targets as I cannot get a good speed solution by obvious reasons. S! to all Your Friend in the Pacific RH