What is your expectations on SH4 ? #1 SH4 player

[GSpector]

Publishers of PC Software have the biggest advantage over Console games. Your Hard Drive and possibly your modem.

It is an accepted practice (though not by us) in the industry to release a game good enough to at least play knowing that it can be updated at a later date.

Now if the game is buggy but has a huge following like SH3, a patch will be released, If not, don't hold your breath because it will not be worth their time & money to patch software that no one plays or complains about despite the sales. If there are bugs, let them know you have an interest in the game/Sim and if enough people show a real interest, a patch will come out.

Console games can not be patched so when they go Gold, they are as good as Gold because they have to be perfect even if it's a bad game, it will play without bugs.

What else can be said, Good or bad, the industry exploits the advantage of update-able software.

[Ark]

Originally Posted by GSpector

Console games can not be patched so when they go Gold, they are as good as Gold because they have to be perfect even if it's a bad game, it will play without bugs.

There are patches for XBOX 360 games released all the time online. There were patches for some of the original XBOX games as well.

In fact, R6:Vegas on the 360 just had a patch not that long ago.

[GSpector]

Then I stand almost corrected since I take it XBox 360's have a Modem in them. I did after all state that a Modem was one of the advantages that the industry tries to exploit and M$ built an exploitable console

And I know that M$ seems to be working very hard to merge the two platforms.

[Ark]

Originally Posted by GSpector

Then I stand almost corrected since I take it XBox 360's have a Modem in them. I did after all state that a Modem was one of the advantages that the industry tries to exploit and M$ built an exploitable console

And I know that M$ seems to be working very hard to merge the two platforms.

Sony's console has online capabilites as does Nintendo's. So did the original XBOX as well as the Sony PS2. One of the biggest complaints about the PS2 by many people was it's limited amount of online gaming. It's hardly just a MS thing. It's not like MS is "the big bad wolf out to get us". The money is in online gaming.

MS is a business just like all others, and they, like all others, need revenue to function.

[Shipshape]

Hello again!!

The intention with the tread I started was not to dismiss the new Silent Hunter 4. My intention was to start a debate about the fact that without you all competent users out there who make modds on freeware basis to the SH4 and are experiencend players will be disappointed. Would you buy a car or a 42” flat screen tv knowing that it will not work as intended? How about if your new car suddenly “died” when you used the AC and opened a window at the same time. Or your new flat screen functionality depended on the fact that you could get local support, on freeware basis adjusting it to its intended functionality. The software industry has made us used to the fact that there will be upgrades to make the thing work. Just look at Windows who every month launches security and other uppdates. What have all this to do with SH4 then?

Well I, just as the rest of the subsim community, was looking forward to the new subsim. But when you see all the eunthusiasm in the treads I can’t help thinking back on the history from earlier releases. Imagine that all the competent modders who mostly on freeware basis makes the simulation experience as god as it gets, and it will be very good in SH4, would stop. That they for some reason decided that they wouldn't share theire experiences and work. What would that result in? The real heroes of the software industry is this people, eunthusiasts, who we all depend on. And what is anoying is that the corporate management on UBISOFT etc know this and then let us, the users make the product work. The user has suddenly become the quality-, support-, and developmentdepartment. Without costs for the software development company.

SH4 is, and will be, a great simulator experience thanks to the subsim community. And I´am very glad that the subsim community works as well as it does, and of course an extra thanks to all of you at subsim.com who makes room for me too write this. The problem is do UBISOFT management recognize and contribute to those who make it work, e.g. subsim community etc? Reading youre posts make me think that short term financial reports is more important than deliver what they promised.

In the future, may bee its time to SH5!, and on the Webb you can read, “We will on the 16 of march start selling a brand new subsim that will be a very good simulation experience. In 5 to 6 months after release, when you the user without any cost for us, has finished for us.” What kind of market success would that bee?

I´am a big fan of simulators, it can bee Flight-, Ship-, Sub- or Trainsim, and the software industry all behave at the same way, depending on that there is a community that make it work. Hove long shall we accept this kind of business model? We wouldn't accept it when buying other things, a DVD-player, a book, a.... etc. Until we can influence the software industry we can find trust in the community, so keep up the good work all you modders out there.

Best regards Shipshape.

P.S:
The SH4 outdates earlier subsim,s and is worth waiting for.

[Payoff]

We get it. Now more screenshots please.

[OneTinSoldier]

Hello Shipshape,

Thanks for your posts. I still have to argue with some of your points though. As Neal said...

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I hear you, but it's been said many, many times. I don't know how it's going to change. When will we stop accepting it? I don't know.

You have to compare apples to apples. A Car, a Toaster, a TV, ect. is NOT Software.

Not only that, if my car was under warranty and it died when I turned on the AC, I would take it in and expect it to be fixed, at no charge to me. And those type of things happen with cars too. This might be hard to believe and be news to you, but cars aren't produced perfectly either! Same for toasters and tv's. If I get home with my new purchase and find it's defective, I take it back and exchange it for a new one, or I get a refund and get my money back. Has everyting you've ever bought been perfect or or something? You've never had any problem with any product you've purchased other than software? :hmm: Did you purchase SHIV thinking it would be perfect and bug free?

It comes down to individuals. An individual must decide whether he is fed up with defective products from a company enough to where he will no longer purchase from that company. If the company has left a bad taste in enough people's mouths, then it may add up to enough people that stop buying from that company to put them out of bussiness. That's what it boils down to. Tired of buggy software? Stop buying it! You send a message to companies with... your wallet. If you did not believe that SHIV would be perfect when it was released, and you wanted it to be perfect but bought it anyway, you just sent them a message that it's ok for them to sell(release) imperfect software.

As I said earlier I expect support from software companies. When I stop getting support in the way of fixes with patches then I will no longer support(purchase from) them.



As for your point about folks who fix stuff on a freeware basis your point is well taken. There were some broken items in SHIII that were fixed by guys and released them as free mods. Things that should have been fixed by the Ubi/Dev team. THAT is the type of thing that gives me pause and makes me wonder... should I be purchasing SHIV? :hmm:

Regards

[9th_cow]

Originally Posted by GSpector

Publishers of PC Software have the biggest advantage over Console games. Your Hard Drive and possibly your modem.

It is an accepted practice (though not by us) in the industry to release a game good enough to at least play knowing that it can be updated at a later date.

Now if the game is buggy but has a huge following like SH3, a patch will be released, If not, don't hold your breath because it will not be worth their time & money to patch software that no one plays or complains about despite the sales. If there are bugs, let them know you have an interest in the game/Sim and if enough people show a real interest, a patch will come out.

Console games can not be patched so when they go Gold, they are as good as Gold because they have to be perfect even if it's a bad game, it will play without bugs.

What else can be said, Good or bad, the industry exploits the advantage of update-able software.

i get patches for my Xbox 360 too. to be honest UBI are very reliable. other than some funny stuff that happens its in no need of a patch anyways. dive bombing B-24 anyone ?

just for the record, console games do get patched frequently now, in the past they were simply released broken. with no hope of a fix.
hell even sensible world of soccer got a patch this is nowt new.
and like i said UBI are pretty damned impressive, the minor flaws that need fixing get fixed, other publishers arent quite as good.

try shops like Shopto.net who ship the second they get a game instock, and dont wait for release days, be warned, if you buy a console game of them it wont be tradable in england ( they are PAL and work fine but are EU copys, english shops only accept games specifically meant for the UK so our beloved government can continue to charge us way over the odds for everything.)