Just what is going on in the world!

[Letum]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

That was all fine and dandy until Rome fell.

One could even argue that the Roman Empire degenerated due to the Romans just doing what Romans do in Rome and failing to adapt the the changing circumstances of the world around them.

There is little good meta-reasoning to that old motto.


Anyway, most of the Muslims in England are English, so they are doing what the English do!

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Letum

Anyway, most of the Muslims in England are English, so they are doing what the English do!

Perhaps.

What's that in your rearview mirror? :hmm:

[Penelope_Grey]

I maintain a sort of... unease about the Muslim presence and the way they are spreading. I know its not right that being Muslim does not automatically make you a bad person or a terrorist and I believe to treat people fairly, but, when you almost get blew up in a certain London bombing, I think tis hard to keep 100% objectivity.

[STEED]

Evil is evil and that is a fact, if you can not spot what ever form it takes you better wake up and fast.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I maintain a sort of... unease about the Muslim presence and the way they are spreading. I know its not right that being Muslim does not automatically make you a bad person or a terrorist and I believe to treat people fairly, but, when you almost get blew up in a certain London bombing, I think tis hard to keep 100% objectivity.

They all study from a book called the Koran. This book to them is not written by man with gods guidance as people believe of the Bible, they beleive it to be the word of Allah himself - sort of like Mohammad was possesed while it was written by Allah - and Mohammad had no say in what was written. It is hard for a Muslim to discount this fact.... Which means...

-S

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

They all study from a book called the Koran.

Actually so many don't and are completely irreligious and unaware of what Islam says. This is very similar to the majority of Jews today, who are super ignorant of the Bible's content, Jewish history and law.

This book to them is not written by man with gods guidance as people believe of the Bible

Judaism believes that the Torah was given word for word from G-d to Moses. To the best of my recollection, Christianity never argued with this. Jesus certainly didn't.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I think tis hard to keep 100% objectivity.

You can be 100% objective and hate Islam with a passion.

Please note my use of the word "Islam" and not "Muslims".

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Actually so many don't and are completely irreligious and unaware of what Islam says.

Yeah, I think a lot of this has to do with the lack of reading and writing skills present in many third world countires. This probably makes many in Islam easy to control.

Judaism believes that the Torah was given word for word from G-d to Moses. To the best of my recollection, Christianity never argued with this. Jesus certainly didn't.

Maybe, but I've never heard of that. Not sure why Christianity would argue that though when it is for another religion, even if it is a similar religion, so I don't see your point there - you lost me. This is like saying that Mohammed wrote word for word that of Allah. Not sure Christianity is going to argue that either - its pointless.

-S

PS. Ahhh! Hello - you mean the ten commandments. click click click - light bulb goes off. That's Apples and Oranges. You are talking about a few things Moses was commanded to right down. In the Koran, the entire book is said to have been written by god. That means every last little passage. This is the problem - they beleive it to every last little word. Not just a small list of rules to live by.

[Penelope_Grey]

So what is the difference between being Islamic and being a Muslim?

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Yeah, I think a lot of this has to do with the lack of reading and writing skills present in many third world countires. This probably makes many in Islam easy to control.

While this is true, I was referring to Muslims in the west.

Maybe, but I've never heard of that. Not sure why Christianity would argue that though when it is for another religion, even if it is a similar religion, so I don't see your point there - you lost me. This is like saying that Mohammed wrote word for word that of Allah. Not sure Christianity is going to argue that either - its pointless.

Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Islam is a sort of offshoot of both. But Christianity doesn't recognize any legitmacy of Islam.

Muslims claim that Mohamed was Alah's direct and accurate messenger. Christians and Jews most certainly don't. However, Christianity and Judaism believe the Torah to be the direct and accurate word of G-d in a similar way. So your prior statement is certainly not true of Judaism and likely not of Christianity in this regard.

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

So what is the difference between being Islamic and being a Muslim?

One can be born a Muslim and be completely ignorant of what Islam entails. One can also be a Muslim and be an apostate against Islam. Just 2 elementary examples.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

So what is the difference between being Islamic and being a Muslim?

Quite a bit I beleive, but I am sure someone here knows more than I. Islamic beleive the Koran - or proper spelling I think is Qu^ran or so is pure and that everything should follow it to a T. Muslims however don't quite follw things perfectly and may have different customs and views that conflict with the Qu^ran. Am I spelling that right? This does not mean they won't turn out to be a terrorists or something, just that they seem to have more freedom to do what they want.

At least this is my take on it.

-S

[ASWnut101]

You use an accent sign, not the up arrow.


Like this: Qu`ran

Not like this: Qu^ran


But I don't know how it is actually spelled. I'm sure thats how it goes, though.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Quite a bit I beleive, but I am sure someone here knows more than I. Islamic beleive the Koran - or proper spelling I think is Qu^ran or so is pure and that everything should follow it to a T. Muslims however don't quite follw things perfectly and may have different customs and views that conflict with the Qu^ran. Am I spelling that right? This does not mean they won't turn out to be a terrorists or something, just that they seem to have more freedom to do what they want.

At least this is my take on it.

-S

No! totally wrong! Where did you hear that?


They are just grammatical terms.
A Muslim is, by definition, a follower of the Islamic faith.

There is no difference at all between being a Muslim and being a follower of the islamic faith.

[Skybird]

There is no difference between Islam, Muslim, Mohammedanism. Western medias as well as Western politics since the time of European imperialism have divided these terms into moire sub-categories than there are in reality.

Not every "Christian" follows the teaching of the "Christ". Nevertheless he claims to be Christian, wile the truth is he maybe is not, and he has lacking understanding of what it means to be Christian (in the meaning of following the example set by the "Christ").

Not every Mohammedan truly follows the teachings of Muhammad as well, nevertheless he claims to be Mohammedan. Problem is he may not be aware that he already is violating basic principles of his "faith", ignores what it negative in it, and adds things that are positive, but have nothing to do with Muhammad's teachings. the vast majority of Mohammedans I knew or know in the West are like this. Nevertheless they pose a problem, a very severe problem, because by lacking knowledge they propagate in good intention a faith that is anything but compatible with western civilisation and ethics and philosophy. If we follow their argumentation that is basing on an idea of Islam that in the form they describe it does not exist, we deadlock ourselves in helplessness against the spreading of this dangerous and deeply inhumane ideology.

That is one of the reasons why I am so adamant in my referring back to the old, but academically highly precise terminology concerning Islam and calling it "Mohammedanism". We desperately need to win back intellectual clearness about what it is we talk about. Else our illusions hinder us to defend ourselves against it, for we fail to see the need for that. Since Islam is highly anti-intellectual and severely handicapped concerning objective self-analysis, we shall at no cost trust it's self-description. It is massively distorted, and driven by it's own totalitarian agenda that neither knows cultural tolerance, nor peace understood as a coexistence that expresses a value in itself. In the end there can only be peace, so said Muhammad, when there is nothing els left than Islam and thus nothing is left that is different and could question it. No other ideology's demand - including Rome or the Nazis - to rule all world and mankind ever was so uncompromisingly total and complete like this one.

[The Avon Lady]

Now that Skybird's back, I can go out shopping. :p