Crab Walk - Page 2

Mush Martin · 03-09-07, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foghladh_mhara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

I disagree they would have willingly done it to the americans given a chance.

And you know this to be true? How about the Indian PoW's in the water with them? Would they have understood as well?

I didnt declare it as fact I offered it as speculative and in direct answer
no I dont recall mentioning anything of the POW's

Mush Martin · 03-09-07, 06:32 AM

Either way this debate isnt what this thread is about it should be taken up
on the Dudley W Mush Morton thread

Foghladh_mhara · 03-09-07, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

I disagree they would have willingly done it to the americans given a chance.

Doesn't sound very speculative to me

joea · 03-09-07, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foghladh_mhara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

I disagree they would have willingly done it to the americans given a chance.

And you know this to be true? How about the Indian PoW's in the water with them? Would they have understood as well?

Plenty of incidents to show the Japanese did do that sort of thing, that said no justification for this (at least he could have spared the Indian POWs), or probably the Wilhelm Gustoff (though I am not certain the Soviets knew what the ship was carrying).

I do get a little fed up with moral equivalence given by some to Axis and Allies, and I am also fed up with refusal to recognise all nations play the "bad guy" at some point. Example, Germany wanted to do to the USSR and Eastenr Europe (in a planned way) what Spain, England and France did to the Americas. Indians sometimes scalped and massacred whole settler familes but it was their land invaded.

More fuel for the fire.

Mush Martin · 03-09-07, 07:49 AM

No its not more fuel for the fire

It is not nations, Not American not British , not Geman japanese Russian
or chinese not Zulus not any nation that is ruthless.

its Humans

it just seems that with nations as with individuals
we have a hard time acknowledging our own flaws.

with nations as with individuals we have a propensity
for hypocrisy quite often and frequently show a willingness
to overlook our own transgressions.

this is the kind of thing that justifies war.
how Harris and Lemay were able to lay
waste on Europe and Japan after Rotterdam.

one strike wether or not it was recalled
by fourteen bombers justified an awful lot.
We do it too.

now thats more fuel for the fire.

Foghladh_mhara · 03-09-07, 09:05 AM

Maybe we're victims of our own propaganda? WW2 was fed to the british and american people as the struggle of democracy against evil fascism. The allies stood for all that was good the axis powers for all that was arrogant and bad. Even in todays context the words allies and axis have certain connotations. I AM NOT HOWEVER SAYING THAT FASCISM WAS GOOD OR THAT EVIL WAS NOT DONE!!! Every book I ever read as a kid reinforced the belief that the allies were the good guys. It can be a bit unpalatable to find out then as Mush Martin points out that the good guys were not immune to a bit of carpet bombing or in the case of Wahoo the shooting of people in the water.

bigboywooly · 03-09-07, 09:26 AM

Back to topic lol

This pic is 39/40 and you can see what looks like the red cross on the funnel of the liner
Lazarettschiff D

Heibges · 03-09-07, 03:00 PM

The sad part of the book, is that for a long time the Germans were not allowed to grieve over the horrors they endured.

Curtis LeMay was a big fat head, who did everything he did for job security.

As opposed to Hyman Rickover who did everything he did to protect his country.

joea · 03-09-07, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heibges

The sad part of the book, is that for a long time the Germans were not allowed to grieve over the horrors they endured.

Curtis LeMay was a big fat head, who did everything he did for job security.

As opposed to Hyman Rickover who did everything he did to protect his country.

I agree it was sad, respect to Rickover.

Kaleu_Mihoo · 03-09-07, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Back to topic lol

This pic is 39/40 and you can see what looks like the red cross on the funnel of the liner
Lazarettschiff D

you're right about it, but later it was painted in standard german grey (like an ordinary transport) without any red cross markings. So Marinesko couldn't recognize it as a hospital ship, especially by night attack. Sad but true, but this has nothing to do with war crimes etc.

greets

bigboywooly · 03-09-07, 05:21 PM

Thanx Kaleu
Not managed to find a pic from late war yet

Guessed it didnt stay that way for long as was a troopship

03-09-07, 06:32 AM	#17
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Either way this debate isnt what this thread is about it should be taken up on the Dudley W Mush Morton thread __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

03-09-07, 07:49 AM	#20
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	No its not more fuel for the fire It is not nations, Not American not British , not Geman japanese Russian or chinese not Zulus not any nation that is ruthless. its Humans it just seems that with nations as with individuals we have a hard time acknowledging our own flaws. with nations as with individuals we have a propensity for hypocrisy quite often and frequently show a willingness to overlook our own transgressions. this is the kind of thing that justifies war. how Harris and Lemay were able to lay waste on Europe and Japan after Rotterdam. one strike wether or not it was recalled by fourteen bombers justified an awful lot. We do it too. now thats more fuel for the fire. __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

03-09-07, 09:05 AM	#21
Foghladh_mhara Commander Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kent Posts: 473 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Maybe we're victims of our own propaganda? WW2 was fed to the british and american people as the struggle of democracy against evil fascism. The allies stood for all that was good the axis powers for all that was arrogant and bad. Even in todays context the words allies and axis have certain connotations. I AM NOT HOWEVER SAYING THAT FASCISM WAS GOOD OR THAT EVIL WAS NOT DONE!!! Every book I ever read as a kid reinforced the belief that the allies were the good guys. It can be a bit unpalatable to find out then as Mush Martin points out that the good guys were not immune to a bit of carpet bombing or in the case of Wahoo the shooting of people in the water. __________________ The beauty of not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise without any of the stress that might normally precede such a venture

03-09-07, 09:26 AM	#22
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Back to topic lol This pic is 39/40 and you can see what looks like the red cross on the funnel of the liner Lazarettschiff D __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

03-09-07, 03:00 PM	#23
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The sad part of the book, is that for a long time the Germans were not allowed to grieve over the horrors they endured. Curtis LeMay was a big fat head, who did everything he did for job security. As opposed to Hyman Rickover who did everything he did to protect his country. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

03-09-07, 05:21 PM	#26
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Thanx Kaleu Not managed to find a pic from late war yet Guessed it didnt stay that way for long as was a troopship __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41