Maybe I'll be staying with SH3 after all.

03-08-07, 11:46 AM

This message was posted in a different forum regarding a statement made by the lead Designer of SH4. I added the gold color for emphasis:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Found in the Ubi Forum. I offer it as informational.

Dan Dimitrescu, Lead Designer
"Hi guys and Thank YOU all for the support,

The game is indeed gold, though there's still much work to be done Hopefully we will be allowed to pach it up nicely and add new stuff on the go.

This game would have been nothing without your support."

Thread link here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107095

This is a little off topic for this forum, but it is related to SH3 in a way, so I really wanted to post it here and get SH3 players' and modders' reactions. After reading that statement, I thought 'uh-oh.. here we go again'. Release now, then maybe fix and finish it later.

This is not looking good at all for SH4. Looks like I might be sticking with SH3 after all. We'll soon see.

Ducimus · 03-08-07, 12:13 PM

Name me a game that DOESN'T fall into that ?

There WILL be unfinished features, and their WILL be bugs, in just about any game released. The question really is, is how prominant those unfinished features and bugs will be. They could be so far under the surface of the program we'd barely notice them, or they could be a big punch in the nose.

Like you said.. we'll see.

Personally ive ready to accept that i'll probably attempt some massive alterations on cfg/sns/data/any file thats in clear text where i can read and interprett the code. Assuming that basic functionality lilke radar, conning towers, bow planes - basically all the stuff that had to be retouched by a 3d modeller is working, then SHV could be polished off fairly well in a shorter amount of time then SH3 was.

Its fixes that require 3dmodeling and massive hex editing that really have me worried, everything else is small fry. The gameplay changes alone, to me make SH4 worth the effort. Im really TIRED SICK AND DAMN TIRED of

Go to grid
sit 24 hours
sink ships.

ad nausem. The whole photo ops, commando delivery, lifeguard duty, etc .. the random missions to me are key. If those don't work, im going to say F**K it and quit sub simming for a good long damn time.

03-08-07, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Name me a game that DOESN'T fall into that ?

There WILL be unfinished features, and their WILL be bugs, in just about any game released. The question really is, is how prominant those unfinished features and bugs will be. They could be so far under the surface of the program we'd barely notice them, or they could be a big punch in the nose.

Like you said.. we'll see.

Personally ive ready to accept that i'll probably attempt some massive alterations on cfg/sns/data/any file thats in clear text where i can read and interprett the code. Assuming that basic functionality lilke radar, conning towers, bow planes - basically all the stuff that had to be retouched by a 3d modeller is working, then SHV could be polished off fairly well in a shorter amount of time then SH3 was.

Its fixes that require 3dmodeling and massive hex editing that really have me worried, everything else is small fry. The gameplay changes alone, to me make SH4 worth the effort. Im really TIRED SICK AND DAMN TIRED of

Go to grid
sit 24 hours
sink ships.

ad nausem. The whole photo ops, commando delivery, lifeguard duty, etc .. the random missions to me are key. If those don't work, im going to say F**K it and quit sub simming for a good long damn time.

I was ready to move on to SH4, but now I don't know. I am also ready for the Pacific theatre. I need a change. I still like SH3. Just need a change.

By the way, have you played the PC strategy game called War in the Pacific by Matrix Games? Awesome game.

Ducimus · 03-08-07, 12:47 PM

There was talk long ago about making an alt campaign for SH3, for some change. but really, i dont think that would help. It's still the exact same thing youd be doing in a normal campaign. SH3 really needs a fundamental change that you need an SDK for to really get more out of it i think.

If an SDK came out today, and tommrrow i could be laying mines off cape hatterias or have to sneak in to take a photo of some harbor, or rescuing people out of the water - i doubt id leave sh3.

But ya, a change in theater would be nice with all those changes as well. Honestly i think any reaction at this point based on one sentence might be over reacting, it can't be any worse then stock sh3 (where they acutally tried to flesh out more then a couple subs). And i really doubt it will be to that level, from my understanding, they aren't really trying to be as ambitions with so many uboat types and so many interior modeling.

Im making a guess here.

Ill bet they orginally planned for
Types: IIA, IID, VIIB, VIIC, VIIC/41, IXB, IXC, IXC/40, IXD1, IXD2

My guess is because they ran out of time for whatever reason stuff like the radar masts were left unfinsihed, send weather report unfinished (i just discovered this the other day, it appears to be some function where you can report on the weather much like a convoy), HF/DF, etc.

but then tacked uboat types onto the same model, and left the interiors unfnished.

All thats a big mouthful. How many subs we have in SH4? S, Gato, and baleo?
What im saying is, i doubt it will be unfinsihed to the point SH3 was because they arent taking on as much as they were before... er.. i think. :hmm:

JU_88 · 03-08-07, 02:52 PM

Hmmm

- Ill forgive them if they add Ai submarines in a patch

(dream on JU)

Well honestly I wouldn't worry too much, 'ship now - fix later' thats pretty much the nature of most PC games nowadays.

We either have to,
a) stop buying games in protest
OR
b) learn to live with it.

Tikigod · 03-08-07, 04:09 PM

Well, the thing is not all companies support their product with productive patches. They vary from company to company and you can only go by their history.

Take BiStudios for instance. Operation Flashpoint had excellent patch support after the game was released. Armed Assalt's current patches are showing the same rapid corrections and huge improvements. You can tell both publisher and developer really care about their product, the future of it, and how people in community see it.

Oleg Maddox of IL2 is another example of excellent product support long after a game release. Both these developers are not very large but, have excellent records with on-going community support. You can guarantee that any game released by these individuals will be patched to above and beyond a stable state.

SH3 on the otherhand did not. The developers of SH3 left things like instruments bugged. They obviously abandoned and didn't care about the final product after its release. As I remember they gave an excuse that games can only be patched 3-4 after the game is finalized. I doubt SH4 would be handled any differently.

Games that don't need patches: Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, Company of Heroes, Command and Conquer: Red Alert, Brothers in Arms, Rome: Total War, and Medieval: Total War. These games although they released minor patches didn't really need patches because they released products with the highest quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Name me a game that DOESN'T fall into that ?

There WILL be unfinished features, and their WILL be bugs, in just about any game released. The question really is, is how prominant those unfinished features and bugs will be. They could be so far under the surface of the program we'd barely notice them, or they could be a big punch in the nose.

Corsair · 03-08-07, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

Hmmm

- Ill forgive them if they add Ai submarines in a patch

(dream on JU)

Well honestly I wouldn't worry too much, 'ship now - fix later' thats pretty much the nature of most PC games nowadays.

We either have to,
a) stop buying games in protest
OR
b) learn to live with it.

or :

c) wait until everything is fixed to buy them...

PS : Tikigod you can add to your list Lead Pursuit and Falcon 4 AF : patch nr 10 just released...

Mush Martin · 03-08-07, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Name me a game that DOESN'T fall into that ?

Freelancer

[edit] ps what the ' ,. my avatar looks like rocky the squirrel or a little bunny rabbit in a japanese sub.
aaahhhhh oh well better than that night in bangok.

Seeadler · 03-08-07, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Name me a game that DOESN'T fall into that ?

Duke Nukem Forever
:rotfl:

Ducimus · 03-08-07, 05:04 PM

DN4 isnt a game, its a myth.

Games that dont require patchs (however minor) are the exception, not the rule. Im not overly concerned bout it. If you want to see a game that the ball was totally dropped on, just look at most any game that was developed in russia, and published by a western publisher.

A good example would be a game called "Boiling point", man, what a let down. That thing has a big honking memory leak somewhere. 2 gigs of ram, 512 megs of video ram, and after 20 mins playing my system crawls progresivly slower and slower.

Tikigod · 03-08-07, 05:11 PM

This is true...good point and observation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

If you want to see a game that the ball was totally dropped on, just look at most any game that was developed in russia, and published by a western publisher.

joea · 03-08-07, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tikigod

This is true...good point and observation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

If you want to see a game that the ball was totally dropped on, just look at most any game that was developed in russia, and published by a western publisher.

You mentioned Il-2 Tiki, definately one of the exceptions, unless Duc means other games, oh just thought of T-72 Fire in the Balkans.

Ducimus · 03-08-07, 05:50 PM

Games like this one:

http://www.atari.com/boilingpoint/

I still want to cry everytime i look at the dvd. It promised to be like ES4 Oblivion set in central america, but instead of swords you had modern small arrms. It had the makings to be avery gritty game. I loved the concept. the implentation sucked balls. And patchs? that was a joke. Game needs a couple 100 MB patch.s all it got was one half baked patch for the US, and then it was dropped.

Woof1701 · 03-09-07, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Honestly i think any reaction at this point based on one sentence might be over reacting, it can't be any worse then stock sh3 (where they acutally tried to flesh out more then a couple subs).

Ever played stock SH2? :rotfl:

Ducimus · 03-09-07, 03:18 PM

Hmmm yeah.. the more screenshots i see, the more i realize im outta this taco stand.

Check out the screenshots Drebbel just posted, from pages 21 to the end of the thread.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=98532&page=21

edit: I think im gonna make three wild guesses.

a.) JSGME will work.
b.) *some* (not very much, but *some* of the artwork done in sh3 might be compatiable. Shells icons on the deck guns for instance.
c.) lots of clear text files to play with

03-08-07, 12:13 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Name me a game that DOESN'T fall into that ? There WILL be unfinished features, and their WILL be bugs, in just about any game released. The question really is, is how prominant those unfinished features and bugs will be. They could be so far under the surface of the program we'd barely notice them, or they could be a big punch in the nose. Like you said.. we'll see. Personally ive ready to accept that i'll probably attempt some massive alterations on cfg/sns/data/any file thats in clear text where i can read and interprett the code. Assuming that basic functionality lilke radar, conning towers, bow planes - basically all the stuff that had to be retouched by a 3d modeller is working, then SHV could be polished off fairly well in a shorter amount of time then SH3 was. Its fixes that require 3dmodeling and massive hex editing that really have me worried, everything else is small fry. The gameplay changes alone, to me make SH4 worth the effort. Im really TIRED SICK AND DAMN TIRED of Go to grid sit 24 hours sink ships. ad nausem. The whole photo ops, commando delivery, lifeguard duty, etc .. the random missions to me are key. If those don't work, im going to say F**K it and quit sub simming for a good long damn time.

03-08-07, 12:47 PM	#4
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	There was talk long ago about making an alt campaign for SH3, for some change. but really, i dont think that would help. It's still the exact same thing youd be doing in a normal campaign. SH3 really needs a fundamental change that you need an SDK for to really get more out of it i think. If an SDK came out today, and tommrrow i could be laying mines off cape hatterias or have to sneak in to take a photo of some harbor, or rescuing people out of the water - i doubt id leave sh3. But ya, a change in theater would be nice with all those changes as well. Honestly i think any reaction at this point based on one sentence might be over reacting, it can't be any worse then stock sh3 (where they acutally tried to flesh out more then a couple subs). And i really doubt it will be to that level, from my understanding, they aren't really trying to be as ambitions with so many uboat types and so many interior modeling. Im making a guess here. Ill bet they orginally planned for Types: IIA, IID, VIIB, VIIC, VIIC/41, IXB, IXC, IXC/40, IXD1, IXD2 My guess is because they ran out of time for whatever reason stuff like the radar masts were left unfinsihed, send weather report unfinished (i just discovered this the other day, it appears to be some function where you can report on the weather much like a convoy), HF/DF, etc. but then tacked uboat types onto the same model, and left the interiors unfnished. All thats a big mouthful. How many subs we have in SH4? S, Gato, and baleo? What im saying is, i doubt it will be unfinsihed to the point SH3 was because they arent taking on as much as they were before... er.. i think. :hmm:

03-08-07, 02:52 PM	#5
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Hmmm - Ill forgive them if they add Ai submarines in a patch (dream on JU) Well honestly I wouldn't worry too much, 'ship now - fix later' thats pretty much the nature of most PC games nowadays. We either have to, a) stop buying games in protest OR b) learn to live with it.

03-08-07, 05:04 PM	#10
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	DN4 isnt a game, its a myth. Games that dont require patchs (however minor) are the exception, not the rule. Im not overly concerned bout it. If you want to see a game that the ball was totally dropped on, just look at most any game that was developed in russia, and published by a western publisher. A good example would be a game called "Boiling point", man, what a let down. That thing has a big honking memory leak somewhere. 2 gigs of ram, 512 megs of video ram, and after 20 mins playing my system crawls progresivly slower and slower.

03-08-07, 05:50 PM	#13
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Games like this one: http://www.atari.com/boilingpoint/ I still want to cry everytime i look at the dvd. It promised to be like ES4 Oblivion set in central america, but instead of swords you had modern small arrms. It had the makings to be avery gritty game. I loved the concept. the implentation sucked balls. And patchs? that was a joke. Game needs a couple 100 MB patch.s all it got was one half baked patch for the US, and then it was dropped.

03-09-07, 03:18 PM	#15
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Hmmm yeah.. the more screenshots i see, the more i realize im outta this taco stand. Check out the screenshots Drebbel just posted, from pages 21 to the end of the thread. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=98532&page=21 edit: I think im gonna make three wild guesses. a.) JSGME will work. b.) some (not very much, but some of the artwork done in sh3 might be compatiable. Shells icons on the deck guns for instance. c.) lots of clear text files to play with