Shooting air target with gun

02-12-07, 03:52 PM

Damn, I hate being right!!
Anyway, from which movie is your sig?

Looney11 · 02-12-07, 04:05 PM

Well, we're watching out for our little and bigger biological friends...

But as I found out that day, when the bulge of a whale appears 30 feet in front of a ship doing 15 knots, there's nothing you can do, even hard rudder to starboard wasn't enough to steer clear.. one loud BAM and one cracked polyester dome.. (hole roughly 6 feet in diameter).

When we got back to port, the hole had grown to almost 30 feet, transducers were broken by the salt water, we had to pump water out of the room abow the sonar dome continiously as the hatch was not sealing properly.. all in all, the sonar took a hit so to speak..

Never saw the whale again, we even did a 180.. nothing.. poor sod..

02-12-07, 04:10 PM

I read it somewhere that active sonar confuses their orientation and they end up on beaches....

Looney11 · 02-12-07, 04:13 PM

yeah, it's sad.

Halifax harbour has a designated sonar unit to keep whales from entering the harbour I heard. From my old shipmates I heard tales of horror trying to sleep onboard when the frigate a jetty away goes PING>>>>>..... <<<<<<<.......

Worse are some "advanced" sonars.. Ping..BRIEIREUEUEEEe....

I'm glad I never went through that experience

02-12-07, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney11

yeah, it's sad.

Halifax harbour has a designated sonar unit to keep whales from entering the harbour I heard. From my old shipmates I heard tales of horror trying to sleep onboard when the frigate a jetty away goes PING>>>>>..... <<<<<<<.......

Worse are some "advanced" sonars.. Ping..BRIEIREUEUEEEe....

I'm glad I never went through that experience

Poor creatures... Should't they stick to passive only, as active gives away position?

Morts · 02-12-07, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakunGak

Damn, I hate being right!!
Anyway, from which movie is your sig?

my sig ?
its not from a movie
but from the "Chapelle's Show"

Mau · 02-12-07, 05:59 PM

Ok now back to the topic I started.....

So I guess nobody tried to shoot an air target with gun (76MM) other than own helicopter.
If I have time then I will try to make a scenario with a slow mover coming on top of a frigate and try to shoot at it.

Dr.Sid · 02-12-07, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mau

Ok now back to the topic I started.....

So I guess nobody tried to shoot an air target with gun (76MM) other than own helicopter.
If I have time then I will try to make a scenario with a slow mover coming on top of a frigate and try to shoot at it.

I tested it now .. it seems that 76mm does not take ballistic trajectory into account. And then it does not take projectile speed into account. That's why it can't hit.

CIWS seems to shoot in straight line, not parabola. It also has much much faster bullets. That's why it can hit. It's just my theory at the moment, I'm doing more tests.

Edit: I did some more test .. CIWS shoots nice ballistic curve .. and it leads the shot nicely .. so it just hits. I just can see the difference in the database.

Dr.Sid · 02-12-07, 07:12 PM

So .. the parameter which controls trajectory is Object type for '0496: 76 mm shell' object. If it's 'shell' type, it uses high trajectory, shell itself is dark and leaves no trace. Such shell can't hit flying target. But if you change the object type to 'bullet', it uses much flatter trajectory (although speed is the same slow), there is a visible tracer (like CIWS) and it actually hits flying targets quite easily. It's not 100% effective even against hello if it moves fast. But once the hello is slow or close, it can be hit with no problem.

The tracer is really cool and this does not seem to affect ASuW capabilities. Nor it affects shell speed or damage.

Question is .. do we really want it ? I say yes ! It would be more fun, and FFG could use some little more anti-missile protection (It must be tested against missiles yet). It would not affect the game anywhere else much, because you rarely shoot something airborne from FFG.

On the other hand .. the GunAttack doctrine uses 'shell' type ammo for attacking missiles. It seems to be used by some AI platforms. Have you ever seen these platforms really hit the missiles ? Because from what I know now it seems impossible.

Mau · 02-12-07, 08:54 PM

Dr Sid,

Great!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you very much.
I think it would be great if we can implement it!

Like you are saying, it doesn't affect the ASuW cap of the gun.

I think LuftWolf should really look at it for the next installement of his superb MOD.

Can you tell me if there is a scenario at Subguru or anywhere else that deals with simple subsonic seaskimmers, FBA or slow moving aircraft.
We can test further the AAW side of the OHP (I know I know people will say that is an ASW sim, however an FFG is supposed to deal with all threat coming at her, especially in this game against all threat coming from subs and that include Sea Skimmer missiles).

What should be happening as well is that we should be able to pair the gun on a same FC Radar as one that has the SM-2 already assign (the one that we call CAS - the one that can use the gun as well). I know you can do this on most modern frigate (with the STIR 1.8 for exemple, which is very common). That allows the gun to be already assign and to be able to engage sea skimmer at very short range (inside minimum range of SM-2 for exemple)

Again waiting for feedback and thanks again!

Mau

LuftWolf · 02-13-07, 02:51 AM

I'll look into it closely.

What I don't like upon first impression is how the tracer rounds seem to skate over the water when fired at long range... we don't want anti-gravity rounds!

If that turns out to be merely a cosmetic issue, then maybe it won't be such a biggie, but I don't want to turn the 76mm into a rail gun!

Also, and I want an honest answer, who here is REALLY going to say to themselves when they hear the VAMPIRE warning, "Wow I need to get my 76mm in action..."

Cheers,
David

02-12-07, 04:05 PM	#2
Looney11 Watch Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 23 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Well, we're watching out for our little and bigger biological friends... But as I found out that day, when the bulge of a whale appears 30 feet in front of a ship doing 15 knots, there's nothing you can do, even hard rudder to starboard wasn't enough to steer clear.. one loud BAM and one cracked polyester dome.. (hole roughly 6 feet in diameter). When we got back to port, the hole had grown to almost 30 feet, transducers were broken by the salt water, we had to pump water out of the room abow the sonar dome continiously as the hatch was not sealing properly.. all in all, the sonar took a hit so to speak.. Never saw the whale again, we even did a 180.. nothing.. poor sod.. __________________ Those who aim at nothing, will most certainly hit that!

02-12-07, 04:13 PM	#4
Looney11 Watch Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 23 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	yeah, it's sad. Halifax harbour has a designated sonar unit to keep whales from entering the harbour I heard. From my old shipmates I heard tales of horror trying to sleep onboard when the frigate a jetty away goes PING>>>>>..... <<<<<<<....... Worse are some "advanced" sonars.. Ping..BRIEIREUEUEEEe.... I'm glad I never went through that experience __________________ Those who aim at nothing, will most certainly hit that!

02-13-07, 02:51 AM	#11
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I'll look into it closely. What I don't like upon first impression is how the tracer rounds seem to skate over the water when fired at long range... we don't want anti-gravity rounds! If that turns out to be merely a cosmetic issue, then maybe it won't be such a biggie, but I don't want to turn the 76mm into a rail gun! Also, and I want an honest answer, who here is REALLY going to say to themselves when they hear the VAMPIRE warning, "Wow I need to get my 76mm in action..." Cheers, David __________________ LW

02-12-07, 03:52 PM	#1
GakunGak Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Damn, I hate being right!! Anyway, from which movie is your sig?

02-12-07, 04:10 PM	#3
GakunGak Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I read it somewhere that active sonar confuses their orientation and they end up on beaches....

02-12-07, 05:59 PM	#7
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Ok now back to the topic I started..... So I guess nobody tried to shoot an air target with gun (76MM) other than own helicopter. If I have time then I will try to make a scenario with a slow mover coming on top of a frigate and try to shoot at it.

02-12-07, 07:12 PM	#9
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	So .. the parameter which controls trajectory is Object type for '0496: 76 mm shell' object. If it's 'shell' type, it uses high trajectory, shell itself is dark and leaves no trace. Such shell can't hit flying target. But if you change the object type to 'bullet', it uses much flatter trajectory (although speed is the same slow), there is a visible tracer (like CIWS) and it actually hits flying targets quite easily. It's not 100% effective even against hello if it moves fast. But once the hello is slow or close, it can be hit with no problem. The tracer is really cool and this does not seem to affect ASuW capabilities. Nor it affects shell speed or damage. Question is .. do we really want it ? I say yes ! It would be more fun, and FFG could use some little more anti-missile protection (It must be tested against missiles yet). It would not affect the game anywhere else much, because you rarely shoot something airborne from FFG. On the other hand .. the GunAttack doctrine uses 'shell' type ammo for attacking missiles. It seems to be used by some AI platforms. Have you ever seen these platforms really hit the missiles ? Because from what I know now it seems impossible.

02-12-07, 08:54 PM	#10
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Dr Sid, Great!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you very much. I think it would be great if we can implement it! Like you are saying, it doesn't affect the ASuW cap of the gun. I think LuftWolf should really look at it for the next installement of his superb MOD. Can you tell me if there is a scenario at Subguru or anywhere else that deals with simple subsonic seaskimmers, FBA or slow moving aircraft. We can test further the AAW side of the OHP (I know I know people will say that is an ASW sim, however an FFG is supposed to deal with all threat coming at her, especially in this game against all threat coming from subs and that include Sea Skimmer missiles). What should be happening as well is that we should be able to pair the gun on a same FC Radar as one that has the SM-2 already assign (the one that we call CAS - the one that can use the gun as well). I know you can do this on most modern frigate (with the STIR 1.8 for exemple, which is very common). That allows the gun to be already assign and to be able to engage sea skimmer at very short range (inside minimum range of SM-2 for exemple) Again waiting for feedback and thanks again! Mau