The term "Japs" - Page 4

DarkPa · 02-10-07, 03:11 PM

My grandfather was killed in the infamous Sandakan-Ranau death march in Borneo [http://www.sandakan-deathmarch.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandakan_Death_Marches]
so it could be argued that I have a bit of an axe to grind with the Japanese.

However, never during the time that I was growing up did I hear a single racist word from my parents or grandmother on the subject, and they never referred to "Japs". I have quite a few Japanese colleagues, and there is much I like about Japanese culture - their films and cuisine, for example.

My opinion is that in-game and, as a consequence, in these forums "Jap" and "Kraut", "Yank" and "Tommy" and other epithets can be reasonably applied and understood to be used in historical context and moreover to be directed into the past, not to be directed at currently living people.

In real life, such terms would be unacceptable if one's life is directed towards facilitating greater understanding and trust between people. I would hope that people intelligent enough to play these games could readily make the distinction between game "smack talk" and the players' true life philosophies, just as sports can create allegiances and cause otherwise reasonable people to engage in all kinds of mud-slinging, all of which is forgotten outside the context of the sport.

StandingCow · 02-10-07, 04:00 PM

*Shrug* I will call them japs. Just because I don't want to type out japanese every single time.

Subnuts · 02-10-07, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandingCow

*Shrug* I will call them japs. Just because I don't want to type out japanese every single time.

I think that's within your rights as a Yank sub captain.

AJ! · 02-10-07, 04:34 PM

The only reason this "Japs" thing has become an issue is because a topics been made and the word racism has been thrown in......

hyperion2206 · 02-10-07, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaMaGe007

****** - is concidered the derogatry term.

Nigga- is concidered the friendly use of the derogatry term, they both sound the same but the English Language is constantly evolving and new meanings are developed. So it really doesnt matter how you spell it even.

For instance

Gay- means happy (not homosexual related)
Gay- means Homosexual, has both derogatry and friendly connultations depending on delivery.
Gay-means Crap, no good...Derived from homophobia in the early days, but nowdays is used as a general term (not homo related) since homosexuals are widely accepted nowdays.

Rap music and movies have helped to make the Nigga word usable in a friendly sence, and I think its a good thing to help bridge the race gap and help to forget the past.

If you use it or not is personal choice and also depends on the situation your in.
(hence my arab joke earlier)

I study Anglo-American history and had a seminar on African American Activism in the 20th century and from what I've learned is that you'll probably be in big trouble if you call an Afro American 'Nigga'. If an Afro American uses that word it's ok, but as a white man you shouldn't use it. There's actually a really nice book by Todd Boyd called 'The New Head Niggas In Charge: The Death of Civil Rights and the Reign of Hip Hop' talking about the ambiguity of that word.

DaMaGe007 · 02-10-07, 04:45 PM

Thats true Hyperion I fully understand that, but that is racism in itself and its them in the wrong, and as dulcimus said thats when it time to throw it in thier face so they deal with it.

There was a thread regarding the word Jap about 6-9 months ago AJ and it reads very differently to this one, this one has a much broader discussion, I think the other one got closed.

hyperion2206 · 02-10-07, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaMaGe007

Thats true Hyperion I fully understand that, but that is racism in itself and its them in the wrong, and as dulcimus said thats when it time to throw it in thier face so they deal with it.

There was a thread regarding the word Jap about 6-9 months ago AJ and it reads very differently to this one, this one has a much broader discussion, I think the other one got closed.

That's the nice thing about such threads: you can discuss these issues forever without reaching a consent. Love it.

flintlock · 02-10-07, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaMaGe007

but that is racism in itself and its them in the wrong

I'm not sure I'd qualify it as racism, but it's definitely a double standard. My feeling is if you find a term about your race offensive, then don't perpetuate it by constantly using it yourself. It's either an offensive term or it's not, period. To argue that it's only offensive when someone of another race uses it is just dense and inviting trouble.

DaMaGe007 · 02-10-07, 05:20 PM

Funny thing happened to me once.
I was out nightclubbing and a bit the worse for wear, staggering down the road I walked straight through a pack of about 25 Aboriginals (18 19 yearolds)

as I reached the center of the pack I bumped into a girl whose back was towards me, I placed my hands on her arms and steadied myself Said "Sorry" and contined through. When I got through the pack I turned, mabe instinct, mabe mistrust, to see her charging at me ready to fight.

I raised my hands open like surrender, but also ready to parry the blows, and said..
"Hey hey hey, didnt you hear me say I was sorry?, Im just a bit unsteady on my feet at the moment"

She said "Yeah ok mate" and she turned to join the others, just then a male came charging out, he had seen her rushing me.

She swerved and grabbed him pushing him back to the pack.

The racism they have experienced caused them to have racism towards me.

So yes its a vicious circle, but it will remain that way as long as you allow people have those "Double standards" sooner or later you have to explain it to them.
It is prudent to use caution though when outnumbered or outgunned.

Harry Buttle · 02-10-07, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

Racism=War
I order to get 18+/- year old people to kill other 18+/- people, it is necessary to give them a reason to hate.
This then becomes much easier when some of your buddies get killed which reinforces the hate.

A reason to hate? do you mean like bombing Pearl Harbour, massacring Civilians and PWs or did you have some other more PC reason in mind?

Seriously, do you honestly believe that the allies hated and went to war with the Japs because of a racist stereotype?

hyperion2206 · 02-10-07, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Buttle

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

Racism=War
I order to get 18+/- year old people to kill other 18+/- people, it is necessary to give them a reason to hate.
This then becomes much easier when some of your buddies get killed which reinforces the hate.

A reason to hate? do you mean like bombing Pearl Harbour, massacring Civilians and PWs or did you have some other more PC reason in mind?

Seriously, do you honestly believe that the allies hated and went to war with the Japs because of a racist stereotype?

Nope, but it's easier killing a 'Jap' or 'Kraut' than killing a human being. You have to make your enemy less human in order not to feel guilty. Well, that's just a theory of mine.

Chief of the Boat · 02-10-07, 06:53 PM

I remember Pearl Harbor. Further, I have been called a lot of 'bad names'...done my share of the 'calling'. The REAL problem is that in this age where so many people can get away with throwing everybody The Finger...the same people have grown such thin skin you can see through them. If there has EVER been a Four Letter Word, it is "Politcally Correct". [Bleep] that. And that's from a Swabbie WASP who doesn't give a Rat's Butt who says it...

COB

immortal44 · 02-10-07, 07:07 PM

The word for today ladies and gent's is.....

Context.

Sure, but that doesn't mean someone won't take offense no matter the context. I know some japanese and they don't care at all about being called japs. I was on a car forum and said 'jap imports' (that's what cars imported from japan are called) and a japanese american took major offense to it. He basically said it is a no-no word in america, although he may have just been uptight or had a bad personal experience.

Chief of the Boat · 02-10-07, 07:09 PM

[Bleep] him.......thin skin.........

Ducimus · 02-10-07, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaMaGe007

Hating people for hyphenating themselves is still predudice of a different kind which is really no better that racism, also accusing them of being pretencious and full of BS is insulting them aswell.

Ok, since your calling me racist, i'll bite on the bait, but i wont get very far into it since im not into discussion right now.

Theres two types of people where multiculturism is concerned.

Type A :
Who say's " I'm a (insert other nation here)-American".

Type B:
Who say's " Im an American of (insert country here) decent".

See the difference?

I wont go into it anymore then that because this thread is going to hell in a hand basket as it is already. BTW, I'm a type B. Im an American of German, Native Indian, and Chinese decent. You can call me Kruat, whatever slang there is for native americans, and Chink if you want - i could care less.

02-10-07, 04:00 PM	#47
StandingCow Weps Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 355 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Shrug I will call them japs. Just because I don't want to type out japanese every single time. __________________

02-10-07, 04:34 PM	#49
AJ! Commodore Join Date: May 2006 Location: That lil island above france Posts: 601 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The only reason this "Japs" thing has become an issue is because a topics been made and the word racism has been thrown in...... __________________

02-10-07, 05:20 PM	#54
DaMaGe007 Watch Officer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 338 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Funny thing happened to me once. I was out nightclubbing and a bit the worse for wear, staggering down the road I walked straight through a pack of about 25 Aboriginals (18 19 yearolds) as I reached the center of the pack I bumped into a girl whose back was towards me, I placed my hands on her arms and steadied myself Said "Sorry" and contined through. When I got through the pack I turned, mabe instinct, mabe mistrust, to see her charging at me ready to fight. I raised my hands open like surrender, but also ready to parry the blows, and said.. "Hey hey hey, didnt you hear me say I was sorry?, Im just a bit unsteady on my feet at the moment" She said "Yeah ok mate" and she turned to join the others, just then a male came charging out, he had seen her rushing me. She swerved and grabbed him pushing him back to the pack. The racism they have experienced caused them to have racism towards me. So yes its a vicious circle, but it will remain that way as long as you allow people have those "Double standards" sooner or later you have to explain it to them. It is prudent to use caution though when outnumbered or outgunned. Last edited by DaMaGe007; 02-10-07 at 05:32 PM.

02-10-07, 06:53 PM	#57
Chief of the Boat Electrician's Mate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: On the hill South of Port Angeles, Washington Posts: 136 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I remember Pearl Harbor. Further, I have been called a lot of 'bad names'...done my share of the 'calling'. The REAL problem is that in this age where so many people can get away with throwing everybody The Finger...the same people have grown such thin skin you can see through them. If there has EVER been a Four Letter Word, it is "Politcally Correct". [Bleep] that. And that's from a Swabbie WASP who doesn't give a Rat's Butt who says it... COB __________________ In memory of WAHOO

02-10-07, 07:09 PM	#59
Chief of the Boat Electrician's Mate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: On the hill South of Port Angeles, Washington Posts: 136 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	[Bleep] him.......thin skin......... __________________ In memory of WAHOO

02-10-07, 03:11 PM	#46
DarkPa Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	My grandfather was killed in the infamous Sandakan-Ranau death march in Borneo [http://www.sandakan-deathmarch.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandakan_Death_Marches] so it could be argued that I have a bit of an axe to grind with the Japanese. However, never during the time that I was growing up did I hear a single racist word from my parents or grandmother on the subject, and they never referred to "Japs". I have quite a few Japanese colleagues, and there is much I like about Japanese culture - their films and cuisine, for example. My opinion is that in-game and, as a consequence, in these forums "Jap" and "Kraut", "Yank" and "Tommy" and other epithets can be reasonably applied and understood to be used in historical context and moreover to be directed into the past, not to be directed at currently living people. In real life, such terms would be unacceptable if one's life is directed towards facilitating greater understanding and trust between people. I would hope that people intelligent enough to play these games could readily make the distinction between game "smack talk" and the players' true life philosophies, just as sports can create allegiances and cause otherwise reasonable people to engage in all kinds of mud-slinging, all of which is forgotten outside the context of the sport.

02-10-07, 04:45 PM	#51
DaMaGe007 Watch Officer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 338 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thats true Hyperion I fully understand that, but that is racism in itself and its them in the wrong, and as dulcimus said thats when it time to throw it in thier face so they deal with it. There was a thread regarding the word Jap about 6-9 months ago AJ and it reads very differently to this one, this one has a much broader discussion, I think the other one got closed.

02-10-07, 07:07 PM	#58
immortal44 Seaman Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 41 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The word for today ladies and gent's is..... Context. Sure, but that doesn't mean someone won't take offense no matter the context. I know some japanese and they don't care at all about being called japs. I was on a car forum and said 'jap imports' (that's what cars imported from japan are called) and a japanese american took major offense to it. He basically said it is a no-no word in america, although he may have just been uptight or had a bad personal experience.