8 KM vs. 16 KM Thoughts and Reality

Corrupt_File · 02-10-07, 01:00 AM

Seeing the tops of masts maybe, but it's the smoke cone a WO will look for, which in reality, on a clear day etc... you could see from +16 km (depending on the ship).

Venatore · 02-10-07, 03:59 AM

8km for me. It's my PC setup that dictate's this.

tommyk · 02-10-07, 05:35 AM

I like 16km... I gives me less feeling of sailing in a small bubble and feels right for me...

melnibonian · 02-10-07, 06:22 AM

8Km as Venatore said. My computer cannot handle more than that

AVGWarhawk · 02-10-07, 08:03 AM

Sailor Steve said 16km is more realistic. I would have to go with Steve's assessment as I believe Sailor Steve is or was a sailor. Lets look at it this way. If you listen to the weatherman ofter they will state 'visability at....2 miles,' etc. On clear days the weatherman statement will say "visability at 10 miles or sometimes more. Seeing mast tips and tall columns of smoke very far away with binoculars is a very real thing. I believe the 8km mod was created for computers that have trouble generating the broader spectrum for field of view. I myself am lucky my rig can handle the 16km and I use it

Lanzfeld · 02-10-07, 08:11 AM

Sailor Steve may be a sailor but so was Cremer. Remember that you are only 5 meters above the water in a type 7.

Just because visibility is reported at 10 miles doesnt mean you can see objects that far.

irish1958 · 02-10-07, 09:39 AM

The earth is round, and the curvature limits visibility distance. Smoke in the distance can only be observed under ideal conditions.
I suspect seeing smoke at 18 or 20 Km would be a very rare event.
Radar, of course, changed everything; even then, the horizon and the three mile limit (aprox 5Km) limited detection.
I use the 8 Km as I suspect it is more realistic.

AVGWarhawk · 02-10-07, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

Sailor Steve may be a sailor but so was Cremer. Remember that you are only 5 meters above the water in a type 7.

Just because visibility is reported at 10 miles doesnt mean you can see objects that far.

True, we are 5 meters above the water but the masts and smoke are very high(on calm weather days for smoke columns). If visibility is reported at 10 miles I would venture to guess that what is being said is with the human eye un-assisted can see 10 miles....unobstructed by fog, humitity, particulates in the air. Picking out individual objects....probably not. With assitance of strong binoculars, I would say yes. I can not say for sure. It would probably be best for an answer from Sailor Steve and his take on this question:hmm:

Sailor Steve · 02-10-07, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Sailor Steve said 16km is more realistic. I would have to go with Steve's assessment as I believe Sailor Steve is or was a sailor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

Sailor Steve may be a sailor but so was Cremer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It would probably be best for an answer from Sailor Steve and his take on this question

Time to get one thing out in the open: Yes, I was a sailor...but only for two years, and that was 36 years ago now. People like Bill Nichols are far more qualified experience-wise to answer questions like these.

What I do have for credentials is the fact that I started working on my own tabletop naval game more than a decade ago, which in itself means exactly nothing, but I do spend a lot of time doing research. Which leads me to...

Being at the library it was easy to look at their copy of The American Practical Navigator, which has all of the needed charts and tables.

Quote:

Remember that you are only 5 meters above the water in a type 7.

That's about 16 feet. At 15 feet above sea level the horizon is 4.4 nautical miles, or 5.1 statute miles, or 8.23 kilometers. That sounds about right, for the horizon. However, if the combined height of your position and the target ships mast equals 60 feet, then you should see it at 16.45 kilometers.

Bismarck and Hood opened fire on each other at a range of 26,000 yards, or about 13 nautical miles, or about 25 kilometers, so they obviously saw each other even before that; and that was on a grey, overcast day. But they were also both very large ships, with lookouts standing about 60 feet above the water, and fire control rangefinders about 100 feet high (I think).

I use the 16km mod because I like the way it looks and feels in the game, but I agree with Bill: it's a major flaw in the game that lets the watch crew sight at those distances at night. What to do, what to do?

Oh, a note about radar: I could easily be wrong here, but it's my understanding that most World War Two search and fire-control radar systems were also limited by line of sight. They couldn't see any further than the eyeball, they just had the advantage that they could see that far at night or in a fog.

Lanzfeld · 02-10-07, 06:21 PM

Thanks for the response Sailor Steve. I like to get opinions on this topic and your paragraph was a great contribution to this comprimise.

02-10-07, 05:35 AM	#3
tommyk Watch Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Near U-995 (Kiel, Germany) Posts: 337 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I like 16km... I gives me less feeling of sailing in a small bubble and feels right for me... __________________ Gute Jagd und fette Beute!

02-10-07, 06:22 AM	#4
melnibonian Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reading UK Posts: 3,473 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	8Km as Venatore said. My computer cannot handle more than that __________________ http://www.thegreywolves.com/ http://wolvesatwar.com/ Download GWX and other goodies: http://hosted.filefront.com/melnibonian

02-10-07, 08:03 AM	#5
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,286 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Sailor Steve said 16km is more realistic. I would have to go with Steve's assessment as I believe Sailor Steve is or was a sailor. Lets look at it this way. If you listen to the weatherman ofter they will state 'visability at....2 miles,' etc. On clear days the weatherman statement will say "visability at 10 miles or sometimes more. Seeing mast tips and tall columns of smoke very far away with binoculars is a very real thing. I believe the 8km mod was created for computers that have trouble generating the broader spectrum for field of view. I myself am lucky my rig can handle the 16km and I use it __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

02-10-07, 09:39 AM	#7
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	The earth is round, and the curvature limits visibility distance. Smoke in the distance can only be observed under ideal conditions. I suspect seeing smoke at 18 or 20 Km would be a very rare event. Radar, of course, changed everything; even then, the horizon and the three mile limit (aprox 5Km) limited detection. I use the 8 Km as I suspect it is more realistic. __________________ Irish1958

02-10-07, 01:00 AM	#1
Corrupt_File Sparky Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada's Western Naval Fleet Posts: 157 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Seeing the tops of masts maybe, but it's the smoke cone a WO will look for, which in reality, on a clear day etc... you could see from +16 km (depending on the ship).

02-10-07, 03:59 AM	#2
Venatore Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia:- Sydney Posts: 2,049 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	8km for me. It's my PC setup that dictate's this.

02-10-07, 08:11 AM	#6
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Sailor Steve may be a sailor but so was Cremer. Remember that you are only 5 meters above the water in a type 7. Just because visibility is reported at 10 miles doesnt mean you can see objects that far.

02-10-07, 06:21 PM	#10
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the response Sailor Steve. I like to get opinions on this topic and your paragraph was a great contribution to this comprimise.