The term "Japs"

[fire-fox]

same here two.

[timmyg00]

"Japs" is just the shortened form of "Japanese". It's like a nickname.

Likewise, "Nips" is the short form of "Nipponese" (Nippon = Japan) ... ditto.

Were I a German citizen, I might find "Krauts" annoying, since it stereotypes Germans as sauerkraut eaters, which is silly. However, I don't think I'd find it to be particularly bigoted. But... I'm not a German citizen, so I really don't have a frame of reference for an informed opinion.

There are far worse epithets that could be, and have been, used to describe any given racial or ethnic group. I think shortened forms of acceptable terms are, by extension, also acceptable (As a citizen of the U.S., I reference the term "Yanks", as our British friends call us... hardly an offensive term...)

TG

[hyperion2206]

In WW1 the 'Tommies' (that's how we call them) used to call us 'Huns' which is (IMHO) even funnier than 'Krauts'. I guess every nation has such epithets like 'Frogs' for our French friends, or 'Yanks'. To me these names are rather harmless, but I could understand if somebody would feel offended.

[U-Dog]

I lived in Japan for almost 8 years & am married to a Japanese woman. And I am a bit sensitive about this. Saying "I sank a Jap destroyer!" Doesn't sound offensive to me. But saying somone is a Jap or Nip sounds derogatory to me. As a history buff i know there is no real comparison between the word Jap and Yank or tommie for instance. Jap was said with alot more hatred and the racism against Japanese Americans was much worse than against German or Italian Americans for instance.

Its just as easy to type JP or Jap. for Japanese. My personal belief is that prejudice against people who are different in partly an instinctive survival mechanism-for early humans it was a case of better safe than sorry when encountering a stranger in the wilderness etc. As such I think we have to work a bit to overcome this instinct.

Prejudice and racism are central problems throughout American history. And many predicted that a nation of immigrants couldn't survive. That "mongrolism" and the clash of cultures , values and beliefs of disparate groups would lead to chaos.

There is a Japanese forum for SH3 & I'm always happy to meet Japanese gamers who enjoy WW2 games. I'd hate for any to be driven away by a perception of prejudice. Now I know that the folks here at Subsim are all wonderful, & I don't want moderaters to get involved and make a big deal out of this, but I hope everyone will think about this issue carefully before making their decision about what words to use.
As background my Grampa's brother served on carriers in the Pacific and had a bad time of it. My wife's Grandfathers both fought in China. They were all farm kids and would have had a lot in common. Because of the war they all suffered a great deal. So I think its best to focus on the things we all have in common.

Alright, got that out of my system, if you've made it this far thanks for reading and considering my 2 cents worth.

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by timmyg00

"Japs" is just the shortened form of "Japanese". It's like a nickname.

The term may be shortened version of Japanese and a nickname, however, to Japanese people: it's a disparaging and offensive slang term.

[Ducimus]

It's a WW2 sim.

Personally i'll not refrain from using the language and slang terms of the time period in the context of it being a WW2 sub sim. Yes, you'll hear me say, "Jap tin can" alot in the future.

Outside of the context of the game, then no, i wouldn't use said slang because it would be taken out of context.

[timmyg00]

Originally Posted by flintlock

The term may be shortened version of Japanese and a nickname, however, to Japanese people: it's a disparaging and offensive slang term.

<content removed when the author found an official reference - TG>

I'm not a person who goes around using such labels as a matter of course... I think it's crass; but personally, I'm pretty tired of hearing about what I can and cannot say about any given group of people.

I think some people take such things too seriously. I could, this very second, decide that the term "Yank" was offensive to me, and then start demanding that people stop using it. The moderators would be pretty busy, I dare say

I won't make such a decision... it's just a word. Words only have power over you if you allow it.

TG

<content removed when the author found an official reference - TG>

[Finback]

I appreciate the various viewpoints listed here. What I appreciate more is how they are all treated with respect.

Hat's Off to the Subsim Community!!!

[Sailor Steve]

To a lot of people it is highly offensive, or it wouldn't even be a topic of discussion.

Do those who defend its use vehemently also advocate free use of the fabled 'N'-word?

It probably won't offend a lot of gamers, especially those of the younger generations, but it really doesn't help to say "I'll say what I want and you can't stop me".

[Kresge]

I think most of the members of this board have enough sense and manners to use terms like Jap, Kraut, Yank, etc. in the context of simming/gaming and not as an insult directed at another member. This is one of the better discussion forums out there on the internet in terms of respect from what I have seen. I do not forsee too many problems arising from the slang used around here and believe that if somebody was to direct derogatory terms towards somebody intentionally then they would feel the wrath of a good number of other members. What we have to keep in mind, as most of us know, is that we're talking not just about a game but using it as a way to live history.

You're all a good bunch of mariners!

[JSF]

It's a game........................It's a game.....................It's a game........................It's a game................................It's agame........................It's a game................................It's a game..................You see, I have to keep reminding myself over and over.......OK...everyone take a deep breath and let's say it together.......ready....It's a gaaaaaame.....I feel better already.......howzbout you.......

As you can see I used a ridicules way to begin this post in what I know will be a vein attempt to draw a parallel to the ridicules extremism of fettering member's choice of slag in reference of real life situations depicted thru an extremely high polycount game simply known as SH4. I can appreciate everyones sensitivity but for crying out loud....Donate more of your time to charatible organizations if you feel that insecure.

Please indulge me here for a few moments folks. This is a forum about WAR GAMES. We in this forum are entertained by the notion of controling vehicles of war. Which in real life as we all know where intended to destroy things and kill people in the process. If that doesn't offend you...using vernacular consistant with the time period should be a walk in the park.

I look at some of the phrases and sayings some of you have as part of your avatars or names only to be amused that you are sometimes the ones clammering about affending others. For the most part it is quite obvious the vast majority of the members here are higly educated and apparently come from solid backgrounds. Why else would you carry on about slang. On another thought if you are this sensitive why on earth would you wrap your self up in a game which glorfies wars, the destruction of property even cities and the killing of people in particualr. It just doesn't weigh out gang.

This is a great forum with great participants. And, I enjoy reading the many contributions which obvoiusly are the result of many hours of research. Sharing this info has enlightened me on a broad girth of issues. But I am somewhat perplexed over the notion of becoming self absorbed in a war game then turn around and get all sappy on us.

It creats a creditbility gap that makes the Grand Canyon look like a hairline fracture.

Keep those cards and letters coming.............

[flyingdane]

Originally Posted by JSF

It's a game........................It's a game.....................It's a game........................It's a game................................It's agame........................It's a game................................It's a game..................You see, I have to keep reminding myself over and over.......OK...everyone take a deep breath and let's say it together.......ready....It's a gaaaaaame.....I feel better already.......howzbout you.......

As you can see I used a ridicules way to begin this post in what I know will be a vein attempt to draw a parallel to the ridicules extremism of fettering member's choice of slag in reference of real life situations depicted thru an extremely high polycount game simply known as SH4. I can appreciate everyones sensitivity but for crying out loud....Donate more of your time to charatible organizations if you feel that insecure.

Please indulge me here for a few moments folks. This is a forum about WAR GAMES. We in this forum are entertained by the notion of controling vehicles of war. Which in real life as we all know where intended to destroy things and kill people in the process. If that doesn't offend you...using vernacular consistant with the time period should be a walk in the park.

I look at some of the phrases and sayings some of you have as part of your avatars or names only to be amused that you are sometimes the ones clammering about affending others. For the most part it is quite obvious the vast majority of the members here are higly educated and apparently come from solid backgrounds. Why else would you carry on about slang. On another thought if you are this sensitive why on earth would you wrap your self up in a game which glorfies wars, the destruction of property even cities and the killing of people in particualr. It just doesn't weigh out gang.

This is a great forum with great participants. And, I enjoy reading the many contributions which obvoiusly are the result of many hours of research. Sharing this info has enlightened me on a broad girth of issues. But I am somewhat perplexed over the notion of becoming self absorbed in a war game then turn around and get all sappy on us.

It creats a creditbility gap that makes the Grand Canyon look like a hairline fracture.

Keep those cards and letters coming.............

What you said

[hyperion2206]

Originally Posted by JSF

It's a game........................It's a game.....................It's a game........................It's a game................................It's agame........................It's a game................................It's a game..................You see, I have to keep reminding myself over and over.......OK...everyone take a deep breath and let's say it together.......ready....It's a gaaaaaame.....I feel better already.......howzbout you.......

As you can see I used a ridicules way to begin this post in what I know will be a vein attempt to draw a parallel to the ridicules extremism of fettering member's choice of slag in reference of real life situations depicted thru an extremely high polycount game simply known as SH4. I can appreciate everyones sensitivity but for crying out loud....Donate more of your time to charatible organizations if you feel that insecure.

Please indulge me here for a few moments folks. This is a forum about WAR GAMES. We in this forum are entertained by the notion of controling vehicles of war. Which in real life as we all know where intended to destroy things and kill people in the process. If that doesn't offend you...using vernacular consistant with the time period should be a walk in the park.

I look at some of the phrases and sayings some of you have as part of your avatars or names only to be amused that you are sometimes the ones clammering about affending others. For the most part it is quite obvious the vast majority of the members here are higly educated and apparently come from solid backgrounds. Why else would you carry on about slang. On another thought if you are this sensitive why on earth would you wrap your self up in a game which glorfies wars, the destruction of property even cities and the killing of people in particualr. It just doesn't weigh out gang.

This is a great forum with great participants. And, I enjoy reading the many contributions which obvoiusly are the result of many hours of research. Sharing this info has enlightened me on a broad girth of issues. But I am somewhat perplexed over the notion of becoming self absorbed in a war game then turn around and get all sappy on us.

It creats a creditbility gap that makes the Grand Canyon look like a hairline fracture.

Keep those cards and letters coming.............

I think everybody is just so sensitive because you've got to be it today. You say something and somebody gets offended and hell brakes lose.
That reminds of one of the Scrubs episodes:

Dr. Kelso: Dr. Dorian, I have kept my mouth shut about all the recent sexual harassment complaints because I don't think it's fair to punish a man for making small talk...or, say, asking his secretary just once to dress up as a geisha girl and call him Kelso-san....

:rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by JSF

ridicules...vein...ridicules...thru...affending

Okay, since we're not worrying about what we say and how it affects others...

The words are

1) Ridiculous

2) Vain

3) Through

4) Offending

I also dislike so-called "political correctness", but on the other hand it doesn't take any effort at all to avoid pejorative and insulting terms. Using such terms in the name of "not being told what to do" is both childish and arrogant. I thoroughly dislike terrorists, but I don't make a habit of calling all Arabs "ragheads" or "towelheads".

When I was involved with killing them I did tend to refer to Vietnamese as "gooks", "slants" and "slopes". I don't anymore, even in fun. If you want to call the enemy "Japs" or "Nips" in your patrol reports and stories, that makes perfect sense, as it fits the context of the times. On the other hand, using those terms in your everyday posts is offensive, and you should try to avoid them where possible.

[codmander]

better than **** when at war the par is to degrate the enemy ***** so on so forth

I hate to edit a post in a discussion about political correctness, but ok, we are discussing these terms but we don't need a laundry list of derogatory racial slurs, please. -- NS