GWX and the AI destroyers

Ducimus · 02-09-07, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

Now why are they pinging if they have no reason?

Don't take this personal but the AI does NOT ping for no reason. My view is, whenever the AI starts pinging is because *I* (the player) did something wrong. The truth is the AI is incredibly stupid, and only reacts when the player does a set number of things. Otherwise its as dumb as bricks.

Give me a few mins, i can tell i need to break out MS Paint again.

Ducimus · 02-09-07, 01:17 AM

Ok, here's what i think your doing.

Posiitiong yourself directly ahead of the convoy and laying in wait.

Bad F'ing Idea. Espeically after 42 or 43.

Here's what i would suggest doing for a submerged approach:

First of all lay off to the SIDE of the convoy, keeping at least 3K meters away from the lead escort. Dont sit directly infront of it. Yeah yeah i know, "i want to get inside the convoy so i can use all my tubes at once".. Well, tough luck man, doesnt always happen that way.

Once the lead escort passes you, THEN move in as quickly, and as quietly as you can. The object being to get as close as you can to the convoy before the side guarding escort arrives at your location. As illustrated below.

Notice the angle i placed the uboat. This is deliberate. Ive found that a straight 90 shot on convoys doesnt always work the best. Primarly because its harder to time when the torpedo's hit. You want all 4 hitting around the same time. This allows you to shoot INSIDE the convoy, and be able to time your shots so they impact at roughly the same time period. Also it increases your chances of scoring a hit since targets tend to overlap some. Just dong get too much angle or you'll hear the thud of a dud.

Once you cut loose your 2nd salvo, start going deep.
OR
If your feeling ballsy, stick around to see what the side escort is going to do. If he runs off in another direction, you have time to turn your ass around and bring your stern tubes to bear. Just dont forget to keep an eye on the lead escort as you do this. Once your done taking your chances go deep REALLY fast as your on borrowed time as it is already.

Finback · 02-09-07, 01:47 AM

Great synopsis of a a good mid-war attack!!!!

As far as escorts only pinging if they have a reason... The escorts ALWAYS have a reason to ping. They're looking for U-Boats. Historically, the escorts used active most of the time over passive when leading a convoy.

Also: If I find myself too close to an escorts path, I frequently turn and put it at my 150 if his AOB is =>1. I then do a slow turn to starboard and try to keep as much range from as possible while I work away from his patrol path. When he is at "constant distance" I then cut back in behind him. If his AOB is <=359, I put him to my 210 and do the same thing to port. If his AOB is 0 I start going deep :hmm: .

Every situation is a bit different though so sometimes you have to risk it or guess the best tactic. Also--don't forget that are 5 levels of escort crew experience!!! Elite escorts can be tough to get around.

Cheers!!!

High Voltage · 02-09-07, 02:30 AM

Ducimus,
your artistic talents have not dulled with age. It looks like a page pulled straight out of Ubootwaffe Combat Tactics 101!

Seriously though, thanks for the tip.

Ducimus · 02-09-07, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finback

As far as escorts only pinging if they have a reason... The escorts ALWAYS have a reason to ping. They're looking for U-Boats. Historically, the escorts used active most of the time over passive when leading a convoy.

Historically yes. In SH3, no, they don't ping unless some criteria is met.

(edit: frankly thats what takes alot of the fun out of the game for me. Im fairly confident i know why and when they ping. Knowing the when and why, all a "PIIINNNNG" means is... "ok i goofed." If i never hear a ping, i know i did it right. Infact i just exited sh3, game is in feb43. I just took out two DE's and a CV, a tramp steamer, and damaged a liberty cargo in a WELL escorted convoy outside of capetown . NOT A SINGLE PING out of any of them the entire time. Obviously i didnt screw up at any point in time, and the 15 kt winds helped

. Attack went by the numbers, and i got out totally undetected, in an big fat IXD2.

pythos · 02-09-07, 10:51 AM

Come in at an angle from one side or another. Do'H.

I will give it a wirl. Thank for the hint. Of course I should have thought about that, but homer being my name for the time being isn't a great help.

Mmmmm, tanker.

scalelokt · 02-09-07, 11:02 AM

Pythos, in my experience the escorts are pinging as they protect the convoy all the time. I dont necessarily think you did anything "wrong" to give away your position necessarily. Its more likely that you found yourself in front of an escort and it was doing its routine ping that it does whether you are there or not and it found you. The key is to stay away from them and find a way to get close to the convoy without passing close to, or in front, of the escort. I have had the same thing happen to me even at the beginning of the war. After I realized I needed to change tactics it wasnt difficult. Figure out where the escorts are and make your way around them. Last night I saw a large convoy with several excorts and made my way in after the escorts in front had passed me, and before the escorts in the back were close enough to see me. Really torpedoed the hell out of that convoy, ended up with 40,000 tons. Also remember that after you get your first torpedo hit the escorts will be coming full speed. Sneak your way in, do as much damage as quickly as possible, get the hell out of there, and expect to be depth charged for a while before you finally get away. FUN FUN FUN!

Ducimus · 02-09-07, 12:52 PM

Escorts don't ping unless your in their active sonar cone, your giving them a favorable area of your sub to ping off of, and youve been doing both for.. im guessing around 10 seconds. That's the general rule as ive defined it for msyelf after ALOT of testing.

There are variables however.

1.) State of the sea

2.) crew rating of the AI. Crew rating i beleives defines the minimum threshold sensitivies that the AI will react to. Crew ratings vary from 0 to 4. - 0 being a total retard, 4 being elite. The higher the crew rating, the more sensitive they are to their sensors.

3.) Another thing i recall being mentioned in the pass is the alert state of the AI. ITs either passing and in cruise mode. Or it's been alerted and has gotten the idea that your around and now it's sensor values are extra sensitive and it wont take much to trip them.

Obviously i take a very mechanical point of view with the AI.

02-09-07, 02:30 AM	#4
High Voltage Chief Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: U-33. Depth Charges...sinking.. Posts: 325 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ducimus, your artistic talents have not dulled with age. It looks like a page pulled straight out of Ubootwaffe Combat Tactics 101! Seriously though, thanks for the tip. __________________ The new-moon night is black as ink. Off Hatteras the tankers sink. While sadly Roosevelt counts the score-- Some fifty thousand tons--by MOHR

02-09-07, 10:51 AM	#6
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Oh ho I see Come in at an angle from one side or another. Do'H. I will give it a wirl. Thank for the hint. Of course I should have thought about that, but homer being my name for the time being isn't a great help. Mmmmm, tanker.

02-09-07, 01:17 AM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Ok, here's what i think your doing. Posiitiong yourself directly ahead of the convoy and laying in wait. Bad F'ing Idea. Espeically after 42 or 43. Here's what i would suggest doing for a submerged approach: First of all lay off to the SIDE of the convoy, keeping at least 3K meters away from the lead escort. Dont sit directly infront of it. Yeah yeah i know, "i want to get inside the convoy so i can use all my tubes at once".. Well, tough luck man, doesnt always happen that way. Once the lead escort passes you, THEN move in as quickly, and as quietly as you can. The object being to get as close as you can to the convoy before the side guarding escort arrives at your location. As illustrated below. Notice the angle i placed the uboat. This is deliberate. Ive found that a straight 90 shot on convoys doesnt always work the best. Primarly because its harder to time when the torpedo's hit. You want all 4 hitting around the same time. This allows you to shoot INSIDE the convoy, and be able to time your shots so they impact at roughly the same time period. Also it increases your chances of scoring a hit since targets tend to overlap some. Just dong get too much angle or you'll hear the thud of a dud. Once you cut loose your 2nd salvo, start going deep. OR If your feeling ballsy, stick around to see what the side escort is going to do. If he runs off in another direction, you have time to turn your ass around and bring your stern tubes to bear. Just dont forget to keep an eye on the lead escort as you do this. Once your done taking your chances go deep REALLY fast as your on borrowed time as it is already.

02-09-07, 01:47 AM	#3
Finback Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 138 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Great synopsis of a a good mid-war attack!!!! As far as escorts only pinging if they have a reason... The escorts ALWAYS have a reason to ping. They're looking for U-Boats. Historically, the escorts used active most of the time over passive when leading a convoy. Also: If I find myself too close to an escorts path, I frequently turn and put it at my 150 if his AOB is =>1. I then do a slow turn to starboard and try to keep as much range from as possible while I work away from his patrol path. When he is at "constant distance" I then cut back in behind him. If his AOB is <=359, I put him to my 210 and do the same thing to port. If his AOB is 0 I start going deep :hmm: . Every situation is a bit different though so sometimes you have to risk it or guess the best tactic. Also--don't forget that are 5 levels of escort crew experience!!! Elite escorts can be tough to get around. Cheers!!!

02-09-07, 11:02 AM	#7
scalelokt Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 400 meters to your right, calculating your speed Posts: 126 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Pythos, in my experience the escorts are pinging as they protect the convoy all the time. I dont necessarily think you did anything "wrong" to give away your position necessarily. Its more likely that you found yourself in front of an escort and it was doing its routine ping that it does whether you are there or not and it found you. The key is to stay away from them and find a way to get close to the convoy without passing close to, or in front, of the escort. I have had the same thing happen to me even at the beginning of the war. After I realized I needed to change tactics it wasnt difficult. Figure out where the escorts are and make your way around them. Last night I saw a large convoy with several excorts and made my way in after the escorts in front had passed me, and before the escorts in the back were close enough to see me. Really torpedoed the hell out of that convoy, ended up with 40,000 tons. Also remember that after you get your first torpedo hit the escorts will be coming full speed. Sneak your way in, do as much damage as quickly as possible, get the hell out of there, and expect to be depth charged for a while before you finally get away. FUN FUN FUN!

02-09-07, 12:52 PM	#8
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Escorts don't ping unless your in their active sonar cone, your giving them a favorable area of your sub to ping off of, and youve been doing both for.. im guessing around 10 seconds. That's the general rule as ive defined it for msyelf after ALOT of testing. There are variables however. 1.) State of the sea 2.) crew rating of the AI. Crew rating i beleives defines the minimum threshold sensitivies that the AI will react to. Crew ratings vary from 0 to 4. - 0 being a total retard, 4 being elite. The higher the crew rating, the more sensitive they are to their sensors. 3.) Another thing i recall being mentioned in the pass is the alert state of the AI. ITs either passing and in cruise mode. Or it's been alerted and has gotten the idea that your around and now it's sensor values are extra sensitive and it wont take much to trip them. Obviously i take a very mechanical point of view with the AI.