GWX's "uber" AI demystified - Page 9

Jimbuna · 01-29-07, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morts

fact

there is no such thing as "GWX uber AI"
only ppl who dont know how to get the H away from enemy DD's

:rotfl:

That's a lot nearer the mark

Woof1701 · 01-30-07, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EM2(SS)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woof1701

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

That i havent got quite nailed down yet, but ill tell you the bits that i comprehend.

- The AI has the same max visual range that you do.

- Weather, and state of the sea effect the maximum visual distance the AI can see.

- Time of day effects the max visual distance for the AI (IE, day vs night)

- Your profile or aspect effects the AI's ability to see you. Again, bow's on or as close to it as your attack approach allows. Broadside is a no no. Turning on your heel to shoot your rear torpedos, this is always a concern.

- Your surface speed effects the AI's ability to visuall detect you. If your running a night surface attack at flank speed, the odds are theyll notice vs running in at 1/3rd or standard.

- The closer you get, the greater their visual acuity. Personnaly i get no closer then about 2600 to 3000 meters, and only if i keep my profile small, and my speed low, at night.

edit:
When it comes to radar, all bets are off with visual detection.

Hmm. Thanks. That's what I was afraid of

I thought with GWX maybe there's a way to attack and even penetrate inside the convoy on a overcast night, like it was done in reality on many occasions. As I stated before in a different thread I think the visual accuracy of the AI is far too good. Being spotted in pitch black nights at 2000 meters distance and seeing a raised scope in the waves even at day is a chance encounter at best.
Just to illustrate my experiences with the sea. During the day with some waves watching from a pier it's even hard to make out buoys that are farther away than a few hundred meters down the beach. Even if you know where they are they bob into and out of your view constantly. Even at night when the promenade and the pier are brightly lit it's very hard to make out any details on the water. I once heard a boat with an outboard motor approach and couldn't see it until it was almost below the pier. Had I stood on a destroyer or merchant making a racket with it's own engines I wouldn't even have heard it. Granted: I didn't have binoculars.

To be upfront I don't know even know what file to look in to see how the visual detection AI works.

However I think Ducimus is right on target with the post above. A couple things I'd like to add. Running decks awashed (6-7meters) also lowers your profile. Just a guess here but just as Asdic and passive sonar get better later in the war, so does visual spotting. As a histrorical reference the Japanese entered WW2 with probably the best lookouts of any nation. They constantly trained under adverse night conditions which led them to usually spot the enemy first. They got quite the better of the US early in the Guadalcanal campaign until radar was more prevalent.

I really love attacking convoys at night on the surface. Usually by running decks awashed, 5-9 knts, and always bow on i can get to within 1500-2000 meters out and not be spotted. Pick 2 targets and shoot. Granted you cant always get the juicy center of convoy Large Tanker, but a Pyro and a small merch is still not bad.

I make sure torpedoes are set for slow to allow for a quick 180 turn away after firing. Escape at 9kts or so.

Bad weather is your friend just as Ducimus said but i cant be horrible. If you cant see it you cant sink it.

Not that im an expert at SH3, far from it however getting in close at night on the surface is possible (till late 41 or mid 42 that is!) and much more fun than shooting from periscope depth then diving deep. It gives you a better chance of repeat attacks and allows you to follow the convoy much easier!

Thanks EM2(SS)

I'll try that. In any case I had hoped to get even closer. But 1500 meters is better than nothing. Last times I tried I got detected at over 3000m distance.

After mid 1942 I wouldn't try a surface attack anyway because of radar, but in the early years it should be fun. Yesterdays save in the career was in June 1940 while shadowing a convoy near the coast. Water is just 30 m deep, so I'll take that as a training mission for night convoy attacks. In case they get me I'll reload and try again. Don't want to start a new career after 11 patrols.

xlbob · 01-30-07, 07:06 AM

Ducimus,
Thanks for the guide.

My 4th patrol, 1940, I intercepted a convoy, west of scapa flow, sank a large merchant and a pyro ammo ship. Following your guide, I was able to hide and get away from 3 destroyers

Samwolf · 01-31-07, 06:09 AM

Good info on AI sensors in GWX. Thanks

Tiny · 02-07-07, 10:40 AM

I don't really get why you have to be at 200m when waiting on a convoy, I made my 2nd attempt yesterday (GWX ofcourse) on a convoy on my ... now 7th patrol, July 1940. I lay myself at 70m and when the (what it sounded like) two destroyers infront of the convoy had passed at 160 degrees and 40 degress I went up to periscope depth. They didn't ping me at all...besides they don't ping all the time do they...or do they send out a ping once in a while or what?

What really pisses me off is that I ended up sinking 0!!!!!!!! ships

I saw Nelson Battleship in the convoy but way to far away so I saw I was perfectly lined up to pop a C3 cargo, or large cargo whatever they are called nowadays

Anyway unfortunantely I had my stern pointed to the center of the convoy so I tried to pick of a medium tanker with my stern torpedo. I shoot it away and ofcourse Bernard had loaded the stern full of steamers

so a couple standing on the bow of a passenger/cargo doing that Titanic thing spotted my torp and screamed so loud the convoy went zigzagging...and my two electrical missed the C3!!!!!!!!

Yesterday I liked steamer torps in a noobsih way but now I hate them!!, can't see why I ever used them...

Then I went away with the external view to check if the steamer would hit anything and it would have hitted a flower corvette if that to wouldn't have detected it!!! grr.

Then when I came back to my sub I noticed I had only come down to 40m and I heard intensive pinging and a destroyer racing for me and I went

and ordered vanziniger fahrt and luckily I escaped...but the other flower corvette above me pounded me for an hour with DC...but in the end I escaped without a scratch...thank god for deep seas.

Will do a 2nd attack this evening. And I shall sink the Nelson ! ARR!!!

ops this got into quiet a story...:hmm:

Ducimus · 02-07-07, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiny

I don't really get why you have to be at 200m when waiting on a convoy,

Nobody said you had to do that when waiting for a convoy. Just stay off to the side of the lead escort and you'll be fine.

DrMilton · 02-07-07, 03:46 PM

I still use old T-Is. They are the fastest out there and when used as the german doctrine instructed (at night time) will blow the victim quite a surprise.
The escorts won't see you if you stay quiet while they pass you by, no need to be so deep for that. To be sure go for silent running even when stationary with engines shut off.

Mush Martin · 02-07-07, 03:49 PM

A destroyer is no match for a sub at battle depth in any game environment
or the real world all things being equal.
MM

Abd_von_Mumit · 02-07-07, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrMilton

The escorts won't see you if you stay quiet while they pass you by, no need to be so deep for that. To be sure go for silent running even when stationary with engines shut off.

Not in GWX, DrMilton, not any more... I know cause they hurt me bad all the times I hope to be undetected when submerged and silent. That simply doesn't work.

DrMilton · 02-07-07, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrMilton

The escorts won't see you if you stay quiet while they pass you by, no need to be so deep for that. To be sure go for silent running even when stationary with engines shut off.

Not in GWX, DrMilton, not any more... I know cause they hurt me bad all the times I hope to be undetected when submerged and silent. That simply doesn't work.

I see. I guess you are right, the gwx manual does refer to the subject and I have the impression that all the escort crews in gwx have the behavior that elite crews have in the stock game (where silent is not enough). Plus the fact of course that in gwx they will ping around to find you, not just listening for you. The lack of that in vanilla sh3 is a major drawback.

Tiny · 02-07-07, 05:35 PM

I did my second attack, but then I started beeing fired at by the flower corvetts when I couln't even really make out much on the horison...ALARM!!!. Depth charged by 3 corvetts for a Long time...not a scratch

What bothered me though was that the last one to go away made several runs without dropping Anything...it also looked like he was sinking...sort of

Anyway another funny thing is that after I had stayed submerged for a while...the convoy had let me a nice gift...A large tanker barely above the surface just begging to be torpedoed !

Strange since I hadn't hitted anything on my previous attack on the convoy.

Is it just my GWX that is full of half-sinking ships? Lord Nelson in the convoy was also below the waterline.

And always when I get back to Kiel there are ships around struggling to stay surfarced....!?

DrMilton · 02-07-07, 08:37 PM

I believe that the mod changes some ship attributes, such as draft, in order to depict better the heavy loaded ships. Maybe this has a greater influence than needed. :hmm:

ref · 02-08-07, 08:47 AM

It's a known problem, and we'll correct the issue for the next major release of GWX, it's more evident when saving near a convoy and reloading. Regretably we'll not be able to finish the corrections for the next patch, so you'll have to wait for a while.

Ref

Makr · 02-08-07, 12:05 PM

This guide changed my life, hallelujah, amen.

Before this guide: 0 successful convoy attacks....ever!

After this guide: 4 very successful convoy attacks, by successful meaning not getting DC'd to death and dropping a few british ships.

Thanks!

Ducimus · 02-08-07, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makr

This guide changed my life, hallelujah, amen.

Before this guide: 0 successful convoy attacks....ever!

After this guide: 4 very successful convoy attacks, by successful meaning not getting DC'd to death and dropping a few british ships.

Thanks!

Awesome.

01-31-07, 06:09 AM	#124
Samwolf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: South Carolina, CSA Posts: 684 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Good info on AI sensors in GWX. Thanks __________________ GWX 3, JSGME 2.3, Sh3 Commander 3.2 SH3 Gen 8.1, Water Stream for U-boats, LRT LITE 2.0, Lifeboats for SH3

02-07-07, 03:49 PM	#128
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Bring em on. A destroyer is no match for a sub at battle depth in any game environment or the real world all things being equal. MM __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

02-08-07, 08:47 AM	#133
ref Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mar del Plata, Argentina Posts: 871 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's a known problem, and we'll correct the issue for the next major release of GWX, it's more evident when saving near a convoy and reloading. Regretably we'll not be able to finish the corrections for the next patch, so you'll have to wait for a while. Ref __________________

01-30-07, 07:06 AM	#123
xlbob Gunner Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 99 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ducimus, Thanks for the guide. My 4th patrol, 1940, I intercepted a convoy, west of scapa flow, sank a large merchant and a pyro ammo ship. Following your guide, I was able to hide and get away from 3 destroyers

02-07-07, 10:40 AM	#125
Tiny Helmsman Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Submerged Posts: 105 Downloads: 91 Uploads: 0	I don't really get why you have to be at 200m when waiting on a convoy, I made my 2nd attempt yesterday (GWX ofcourse) on a convoy on my ... now 7th patrol, July 1940. I lay myself at 70m and when the (what it sounded like) two destroyers infront of the convoy had passed at 160 degrees and 40 degress I went up to periscope depth. They didn't ping me at all...besides they don't ping all the time do they...or do they send out a ping once in a while or what? What really pisses me off is that I ended up sinking 0!!!!!!!! ships I saw Nelson Battleship in the convoy but way to far away so I saw I was perfectly lined up to pop a C3 cargo, or large cargo whatever they are called nowadays Anyway unfortunantely I had my stern pointed to the center of the convoy so I tried to pick of a medium tanker with my stern torpedo. I shoot it away and ofcourse Bernard had loaded the stern full of steamers so a couple standing on the bow of a passenger/cargo doing that Titanic thing spotted my torp and screamed so loud the convoy went zigzagging...and my two electrical missed the C3!!!!!!!! Yesterday I liked steamer torps in a noobsih way but now I hate them!!, can't see why I ever used them... Then I went away with the external view to check if the steamer would hit anything and it would have hitted a flower corvette if that to wouldn't have detected it!!! grr. Then when I came back to my sub I noticed I had only come down to 40m and I heard intensive pinging and a destroyer racing for me and I went and ordered vanziniger fahrt and luckily I escaped...but the other flower corvette above me pounded me for an hour with DC...but in the end I escaped without a scratch...thank god for deep seas. Will do a 2nd attack this evening. And I shall sink the Nelson ! ARR!!! ops this got into quiet a story...:hmm:

02-07-07, 03:46 PM	#127
DrMilton Gunner Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Right in the middle of it... Posts: 94 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I still use old T-Is. They are the fastest out there and when used as the german doctrine instructed (at night time) will blow the victim quite a surprise. The escorts won't see you if you stay quiet while they pass you by, no need to be so deep for that. To be sure go for silent running even when stationary with engines shut off.

02-07-07, 05:35 PM	#131
Tiny Helmsman Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Submerged Posts: 105 Downloads: 91 Uploads: 0	I did my second attack, but then I started beeing fired at by the flower corvetts when I couln't even really make out much on the horison...ALARM!!!. Depth charged by 3 corvetts for a Long time...not a scratch What bothered me though was that the last one to go away made several runs without dropping Anything...it also looked like he was sinking...sort of Anyway another funny thing is that after I had stayed submerged for a while...the convoy had let me a nice gift...A large tanker barely above the surface just begging to be torpedoed ! Strange since I hadn't hitted anything on my previous attack on the convoy. Is it just my GWX that is full of half-sinking ships? Lord Nelson in the convoy was also below the waterline. And always when I get back to Kiel there are ships around struggling to stay surfarced....!?

02-07-07, 08:37 PM	#132
DrMilton Gunner Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Right in the middle of it... Posts: 94 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I believe that the mod changes some ship attributes, such as draft, in order to depict better the heavy loaded ships. Maybe this has a greater influence than needed. :hmm:

02-08-07, 12:05 PM	#134
Makr Sailor man Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: In a van down by the river. Posts: 50 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This guide changed my life, hallelujah, amen. Before this guide: 0 successful convoy attacks....ever! After this guide: 4 very successful convoy attacks, by successful meaning not getting DC'd to death and dropping a few british ships. Thanks!