1.04 reluctance?

[goldorak]

And it seems people can't accept to play with autocrew (and particularly auto-tma) off.
Play the simulation as a skilled player will play and you'll see that the seawolf hasn't lost any real advantage to the 688i or akula.
It is easy to criticise the so-called advantage of the akula or 688i when auto-tma does all the dirty work isn't it ?

[fatty]

But what is "real life?" Ranges and speed and equipment performance are all classified. We can come close but nobody here really knows (or is allowed to disclose) exact figures. So we have to tweak until we find something that we think is a fair representation.

And in the spirit of game balance, I'm pleased with the changes. I'm getting pretty bored of taking on three Seawolves in my 688i. I'm glad players will start mixing it up and branching into other platforms.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Where is the SubSim crew meeting for MP games these days?

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by fatty

But what is "real life?" Ranges and speed and equipment performance are all classified. We can come close but nobody here really knows (or is allowed to disclose) exact figures. So we have to tweak until we find something that we think is a fair representation.

And in the spirit of game balance, I'm pleased with the changes. I'm getting pretty bored of taking on three Seawolves in my 688i. I'm glad players will start mixing it up and branching into other platforms.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Where is the SubSim crew meeting for MP games these days?

Oh I missed this back then.

Well, that's an interesting question. The long and the short of it is that 1.03 hit us pretty hard. Most of us had gone over to play games at the CADC, but then we all kind of went our separate ways and some haven't come back (like OKO and Furia... ).

As of 1.04 and the new LWAMI's, we are basically starting over. Once I get the mod to a place that I can feel comfortable playing it without thinking of something I need to change, my primary focus is going to be to get a group of players together to play modded games, perhaps making weekly scheduled games using the CADC the way we used to and perhaps some more elaborate things.

Cheers,
David

@ KF I didn't mean to get into a pissing contest. To be honest, I haven't been on GS for months, but I wasn't impressed when I was there. Also, I'm HIGHLY biased towards modded games, which I suppose would be hard to find on GS, but I understand why people play the way they do.

[ADM Sfduke NCO-SSN]

<S>


With the new 1.4 patch for DW there are some problems with the new setting with the patch.
All thou there have been some good fix’s with the patch. The fact is that some changes have made it very unfair.
The new (DW.INI) setting for one, and the ranges of torps for the SW another.
1st There is no way to know what the host has set the decoys to work at.
This does not allow all games to be played the same as others are.
So in some games a player may get kills easier than another player in another game.
Like some decoys in one game being set to 50%, and another 100%. Or 0% to 50%.
This would be unfair to all players trying to get kills and points.
We have a standard set of options to make it the same for all and fair for all.
This new (DW.INI) setting does not allow this to be done.
Next is the fact that now SW torps only go out to 20nmi.
This allows an akula player to stay at 21nmi away and kill the SW player at will.
The SW player would not be able to hit the akula at that range.
This along with the new decoy setting gives the akula player a great advantage vs. the SW player.
They could also out run the SW torp if they were like 12.5nmi away.
This means all subs would need to be set to inside 12.5nmi from each other.
With all of this now All SSN maps would be out of date, and new maps would have to be made.
Along with not being able to, put to many platforms in a map to keep all platforms together.
I can not believe sonalysts would put out a patch that could be used by the host to cheat others.
The new decoy ini setting allow the host to do this.
Along with the new SW torp ranges would give the akula a great advantage over SW players.
One thing I am sick of is these it’s more real players or more realistic.
The same players calling the moon was too big and too many star’s is not realistic from there basement in the city LOL.
Never having seen the Moon as big as it can be seen and as many star’s that you be able to see in the open sea.
The same players that say to make it more fair, is to download the lwami mod to make it fair! LOL!
The fact’s are the more real you try to make a game the less fair it becomes!
The fact an akula would need to be less than 12.5 nmi away from a SW before the SW could kill the akula!
Or the Akula could just run away is a fact in this new 1.4 and with that so unfair to even play.
Why were only the SW torps ranges changed and not the fact you should be able to hear a rocket being fired from an Akula?
This new patch was put out to give the akula host and player an advantage over any SW player and even a cheat to do it with!
With the new decoy setting! LOL!
The point is the 1.4 is unfair and know longer fun or fair for SW players.
The point is the game was fun before and fair. If they would of, just did the fixes and not add the decoys ini setting and the new SW torp ranges.
The patch would have been great! The player here are the same player that posted before about the subs not moving real and made them look like toy subs in a bath tube with the 1.3 and made the akula cut its array.
I have sent two E-mail to sonalysts about this with out any reply now for a week and a masg to Jamie with know reply yet!
Only to find out he’s no longer with them! LOL!
Players will play what they like as they did with the mods!
I don't think you will find many SW players using this patch!
Why you may not find some player in game spy is because they like to play coop games vs. (AI’s).
You will only find players that enjoy a game that is fair and fun to be played vs. another player here in game spy.
The plm posting in the forums is you have a few that post the truth and for everyone you have another 10 that say that is not true.
Players you see that post the most are the one’s that need everyone to think they know more than all other’s.
This could be so fair from the truth it’s not even funny! These players think they know everything and know very little!
The only things they know, is what is best for them to be able to win more easy
If you don't think this is true do the test. Have another player get in the Akula and SW with show truth on get 12.5nmi away and fire.
Have the akula just run away. I am also sick of player saying the SW array is so much better than the akula’s. I have played many very good players in both. In most all case’s both pick each other up at the same time. Some times it depends on the sea state or layer type. On who picks who up 1st?
If the SW has a better array than the akula it is so small it is point less to even talk about!
The point that this game allows players to make and pick maps that makes it very hard to pick up players from more than 12.5nmi away or even less.
With the sea state, bottom type, weather and more. There was know big call to change the decoys or the SW trop ranges.
1st players that are good player know this to be an unfair advantage to the akula’s and the ini setting nothing more than away for a host to be able to cheat! With all players having to take his word on what he has them set too, and No way to check!
Why would anyone need to download a mod to make it fairer unless the patch made it unfair to start?
I don't post here because what is said here most of the time is just bull! And for ever good post you have another 10 players posting more bull!
So for all you player that was to jump all over this post have to it! I will not be replying to it!
This is only a post to let others read and do the test for them self’s.
Some will stay with the 1.3 some will still play the 1.4 and some will play both!
We here at the Silent Sharks Navy will only use the 1.3 to keep a standard game play and to be fair for all players.

<S>
ADM Sfduke NCO SSN

[LuftWolf]

Thanks for the diplomatic reply.

Everyone here needs to understand that when I talk about DW, I talk solely about MODDED DW, which is, of course, my (totally biased) preference.

In the context of Modded DW, the DW 1.04 patch is *everything* we could have hoped for, mostly because the issues that it raises for stock players are simply non-issues in modded DW.

For those playing non-modded DW in particular settings such as fleets, I understand why 1.04 would cause such consternation because of the way it shifts the balance of the game, perhaps quite unexpectedly for some players.

In this light, I think it's best for us to be clear when we discuss these things, and to stay positive.

Although, to be fair, don't be surprised when you come to SubSim and jump ugly with SubSim members about SubSim projects! One of the features of the DW community has been malevolent fractionalization, and everyone has their own way to play and of course everyone's way is the best and the right way.

You all can read in the first few lines of my readme why I'm doing this, to make DW more the way I want it to be. I've never hid that fact, so don't be surprised when it reflects OUR biases and opinions.

That's the great thing about DWedit... don't like something? Change it in the database and tell the fleet this is what to use now.

So my advice to you in the SSN, is to do some research into a few things that can help balance the game for your players, and then make a Database for you fleet, and then update to 1.04 and use those. Just some advice, let me know if you want some specific suggestions about what you can do to address the issue as I've got some ideas.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

I ususally don't like to repeat myself, but this is worth saying a second time.

The Akula-II could run away from an ADCAP from "12.5nm" in DW 1.03. In fact, it can run away from an ADCAP fired as close as 9.82 nm. And I can prove it:

The ADCAP runs 27nm at 55kts. That gives you a runtime of 29.45 minutes.
In 29.45 minutes, an Akula-II can run 17.18nm at its top speed of 35kts. So, to prevent the Akula from being able to run away, you need him to be at least 17.18nm from the maximum range of the ADCAP: 27nm-17.18nm= 9.82nm.

So no-escape range in 1.03 is 9.82nm.
In 1.04, it's 7.74nm. (same method, different runtime)

The sky isn't exactly falling.

And it applies to ALL torpedoes, not just the ADCAP. I've already gotten away from some air-dropped torps that would have killed me for sure in 1.03...but in 1.04 they didn't have the legs to catch up.

[Fearless]

I'm really flabbergasted at what I'm reading here. I'm still trying to figure out why things are changed except for the obvious one being the surfaced moving sub stability being erratic in v1.03. V1.04 should have really fixed that problem alone.

The logic that ADM Sfduke NCO-SSN presented is quite plausable. The Modders have their own opinion but hey, modding stuff is really for personal preference isn't it? Surely the changes made aren't based on real life accurate data retrieved from source documents that no doubt wouldn't be available anyway? Or am I barking up the wrong tree here!!:hmm: