What could the TMAP-chunk be?

Jimbuna · 02-03-07, 06:52 AM

Sorry mate

Welcome aboard kaleun

Kaleun_Endrass · 02-03-07, 08:07 AM

Thanks for the welcome...

Ok, I need to give additional information for those who doesn´t know about the TMAP-chunk but could find an explanation what it could be.

The Silent Hunter III DAT-, ZON-, VAL-, SIM-, DSD-Files consists of chunks. There are several types. One of them is Type 1. That type encapsulates a 3d model. A "normal" 3d model has Vertices, Triangles and Texture Coordinates. Some type 1 chunks have the TMAP structure (as described in my earlier post) right after the VertexArray, TriangleArray and TxCoordArray.
My first guess was, that these data stands for smoothing the mesh, but that wouldn´t make much sense because one TMAP contains one 6-byte data structure for each triangle and a SmoothingGroups contains only information of those vertices/triangles that build a smoothed surface. If you take a look at the file description for the OBJ fileformat then Smoothing could be an explanation for the TMAP but still, why are information stored for each and every triangle - that doesn´t make sense?!
My second guess was, that the TMAP has something todo with multi-texturing but that doesn´t make sense either because you can find 3d models that uses three different materials but have only one TMAP. But if I´m wrong with this, what are those unsigned shortints for?

Well, I´ll keep looking... maybe someone of you have an idea.

ref · 02-03-07, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleun_Endrass

Thanks for the welcome...

Ok, I need to give additional information for those who doesn´t know about the TMAP-chunk but could find an explanation what it could be.

The Silent Hunter III DAT-, ZON-, VAL-, SIM-, DSD-Files consists of chunks. There are several types. One of them is Type 1. That type encapsulates a 3d model. A "normal" 3d model has Vertices, Triangles and Texture Coordinates. Some type 1 chunks have the TMAP structure (as described in my earlier post) right after the VertexArray, TriangleArray and TxCoordArray.
My first guess was, that these data stands for smoothing the mesh, but that wouldn´t make much sense because one TMAP contains one 6-byte data structure for each triangle and a SmoothingGroups contains only information of those vertices/triangles that build a smoothed surface. If you take a look at the file description for the OBJ fileformat then Smoothing could be an explanation for the TMAP but still, why are information stored for each and every triangle - that doesn´t make sense?!
My second guess was, that the TMAP has something todo with multi-texturing but that doesn´t make sense either because you can find 3d models that uses three different materials but have only one TMAP. But if I´m wrong with this, what are those unsigned shortints for?

Well, I´ll keep looking... maybe someone of you have an idea.

That's one of the few misteries remaining on dat file structures (along with the animation format), as far as I know nobody has been able to figure it out, in any case don't use obj file format as a reference, it's used by us because it's the easiest one to produce, if you look at the SH4 thread pictures you'll see that the devs use 3ds max for designing, so probably it's a 3ds feature.

Ref

Kaleun_Endrass · 02-03-07, 12:19 PM

Hi ref,

I know that the devs are using 3dsmax and as I first started working on the dat files in March 2005, I found alot of similarities between the 3d models in the dat files and the 3ds fileformat.
But none of the chunks of a 3ds file have a structure size as the TMAP has.
Based on the name I would guess it´s an additional texture map (for each triangle one RGB value - but I never heard of a game using 48bit textures)

There is really just one thing left I think the TMAP is for and that´s SmoothingGroups but I can´t figure out how the 3 unsigned shortints or 6 bytes should built such a group and futhermore why each triangle of the mesh needs to be in this group...

Did anyone tried to delete the TMAP section of an unit and compared the both visual appearances in the game? Maybe that´s one hint... (I´m asking, because I can´t test any longer - I´m nearly 1000 miles away from my copy

)

ref · 02-03-07, 07:04 PM

I haven't had many time myself for research in the last months, too busy with GWX, as soon as we release the january (now february) patch I'll resume the work on some tools and research of some unknown stuff in sh3 that has potential for improvement/additions.

Ref

DivingDuck · 02-09-07, 09:44 AM

Moin,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleun_Endrass

...
Did anyone tried to delete the TMAP section of an unit and compared the both visual appearances in the game? Maybe that´s one hint... (I´m asking, because I can´t test any longer - I´m nearly 1000 miles away from my copy

)

I did, by mistake. I´m doing the coding for Urfisch´s open hatch project. After several days of investigation I´ve found out that the self illumination seems to be controlled by this TMAP section. The problem lies with Pack3D. When importing an object this section get´s lost. Even the unchanged original command roon can´t be re-imported without loosing it. I hope I´ll get the point how to (re-)attach this section to newly imported objects soon.

As you can see in the screenie below the newly added compartment is kind of foggy.

Don´t get confused about the green ambient light. I´ve used this color for some testing purposes. And yes, the compartment is lacking of several polys. First coding, then eye candy.

Regards,
DD

ref · 02-09-07, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivingDuck

Moin,
I did, by mistake. I´m doing the coding for Urfisch´s open hatch project. After several days of investigation I´ve found out that the self illumination seems to be controlled by this TMAP section. The problem lies with Pack3D. When importing an object this section get´s lost. Even the unchanged original command roon can´t be re-imported without loosing it. I hope I´ll get the point how to (re-)attach this section to newly imported objects soon.

Maybe prelighting applied to each face?

Ref

DivingDuck · 02-09-07, 11:05 AM

Moin,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref

Maybe prelighting applied to each face?
Ref

Sorry ref, don´t know what prelighting is.
I´ve altered the illumination data for the corresponding *.tga file. Seems that there is an effect. But I think the devs wouldn´t have made it that way for no reason.

Regards,
DD

02-03-07, 06:52 AM	#1
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,818 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Sorry mate Welcome aboard kaleun __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-03-07, 12:19 PM	#4
Kaleun_Endrass Sparky Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 158 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Hi ref, I know that the devs are using 3dsmax and as I first started working on the dat files in March 2005, I found alot of similarities between the 3d models in the dat files and the 3ds fileformat. But none of the chunks of a 3ds file have a structure size as the TMAP has. Based on the name I would guess it´s an additional texture map (for each triangle one RGB value - but I never heard of a game using 48bit textures) There is really just one thing left I think the TMAP is for and that´s SmoothingGroups but I can´t figure out how the 3 unsigned shortints or 6 bytes should built such a group and futhermore why each triangle of the mesh needs to be in this group... Did anyone tried to delete the TMAP section of an unit and compared the both visual appearances in the game? Maybe that´s one hint... (I´m asking, because I can´t test any longer - I´m nearly 1000 miles away from my copy ) __________________ I hope alot of people will buy SHV. I will and I will mod it and play it. Keep in mind if we don´t buy it, the next SH title will look like this and you can look forward to a starfish addon...

02-03-07, 07:04 PM	#5
ref Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mar del Plata, Argentina Posts: 871 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I haven't had many time myself for research in the last months, too busy with GWX, as soon as we release the january (now february) patch I'll resume the work on some tools and research of some unknown stuff in sh3 that has potential for improvement/additions. Ref __________________

02-03-07, 08:07 AM	#2
Kaleun_Endrass Sparky Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 158 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the welcome... Ok, I need to give additional information for those who doesn´t know about the TMAP-chunk but could find an explanation what it could be. The Silent Hunter III DAT-, ZON-, VAL-, SIM-, DSD-Files consists of chunks. There are several types. One of them is Type 1. That type encapsulates a 3d model. A "normal" 3d model has Vertices, Triangles and Texture Coordinates. Some type 1 chunks have the TMAP structure (as described in my earlier post) right after the VertexArray, TriangleArray and TxCoordArray. My first guess was, that these data stands for smoothing the mesh, but that wouldn´t make much sense because one TMAP contains one 6-byte data structure for each triangle and a SmoothingGroups contains only information of those vertices/triangles that build a smoothed surface. If you take a look at the file description for the OBJ fileformat then Smoothing could be an explanation for the TMAP but still, why are information stored for each and every triangle - that doesn´t make sense?! My second guess was, that the TMAP has something todo with multi-texturing but that doesn´t make sense either because you can find 3d models that uses three different materials but have only one TMAP. But if I´m wrong with this, what are those unsigned shortints for? Well, I´ll keep looking... maybe someone of you have an idea.