So It's a Quagmire

[TteFAboB]

Granted there are some patriots inside the Democrat party. Let me see...yup, they definitely exist, I just finished counting them with the fingers of one hand.

Originally Posted by Letum

Im a little confused now.....
Is US and other coalition solders dieing the worst case scenario if US forces stay in Iraq?

You keep think'n Butch, thats what your'e good at.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Quagmire can also and is used in the political arena. You are using it as a soley military term.

Not using, asking. Waiting for an answer to this question

"Do you mean "quagmire" militarily or poltically?"

Which I now have. Thanks

because you frame it as such doesn't make it so.

see above (swap using with framing)

Which is the point of my original post. If you cannot see that, well your position is noted.

Eh? I haven't taken a position yet!

For the record, I think Iraq is a bloody mess militarily, and not much better in the political arena. There seems to be very little will among the government to end the violence, and the population seem determined to vote on religious grounds. Which makes no bloody sense to me. Also, the Sunni/Shia imbalance from the previous regime is being carried on today, a lot of grudges are being held that would be best, if not easily, forgotten.

Granted there are some patriots inside the Democrat party. Let me see...yup, they definitely exist, I just finished counting them with the fingers of one hand.

All the better. Not being a patriot doesn't automatically equate to working for your countrys destruction. I'd always prefer realism over pride/loyalty/patriotism/duty. But that's just me

[Ducimus]

Im gonna pretend to be a headshrink for a moment.

To me, it sounds like somebody's frustrated, and feels threatned by any implied or perceived reality which has the potential to shatter any comforting paradigm or bubble in which they've placed themselves.

Consquently this person feels compelled to lash out in order to reassure themselves of a perceived moral highground that we did and are continuing to do, the right thing - in order to further buttress and reinforce that comforting paradigm or bubble.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Letum

Like I said in the first post:
"I don't know anywhere near enough about the situation in Iraq to know what the best course of action is"
i.e I don't have a opinion yet!

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Eh? I haven't taken a position yet!

Waste Gate, you seam to have a habit of thinking people are against you before they have stated their position. :hmm: Why is that?


*edit* Ohhhhh! thats why! thanks Ducimus!

[gdogghenrikson]

quagmire.....here I thought this thread was about Family Guy...giggity giggity goo

[baggygreen]

you took the words from my mouth mate! i was thinking family guy as well!

as for Iraq, Letum asked for worst case if we pull out, i actually wrote that out a few weeks back i'll find and linky it.

Personally, i think theres a need for the military (all coalition and Iraqi forces) to clamp down on these *****s fighting from within the population. only way to root em out is to go right in deep into the civilians where all these bastards are hiding.yeh, you're gonna cop casualties, n you're gonna cause casualties, but if its the only way to win...

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by waste gate

So this war is a quagmire? Let's ask a few pertinant questions?
1. How long has the first fully-elected government of Iraq been in office? ANSWER: 10 months. The cut and run crowd really likes to gieve democracy a chance, eh?

2. How long has Iraq had their first full elections? ANSWER: Just over a year ago, ditto the comment on question one.

3. How long has Iraq had their new constitution? ANSWER: About 15 months. How stable was the U. S. Government after its first 15 months?

4.How long has it been since Iraq had its first elected interim President? ANSWER: Less than two years, April 2005.

5. How long has it been since Iraq had its first multi-party election in over 50 years? ANSWER: Just over two years.

So Mr. Pull-Out-Now-Cut-and-Run Democrat(read liberal, secular progressive) we can see how microscopic your commitment to Democracy really is. You're more concerned about being called a Democrat"ic" party than you are committed to Democracy. If this is a quagmire, then you don't have any sense of perspective, not to mention a sense of commitment.

I'm not:

1. a "Mr.". :p
2. a Democrat, though I vote for people best qualified, not for their parties.
3. liberal - at least no one ever called me so.
4. secular progressive - oh, no, no!

But I don't believe Iraq will ever become a western democracy, even should all of Iraq's Sunnis and their local and imported terrorists magically disappear overnight and even should Coalition troops repair Iraq from top to bottom. See these very recent Iraqi poll results, for example.

The first advantage of being in Iraq is its attraction to Islamic terrorists from all over the world. Don't belittle this, as it may possibly rank as one of the greatest military diversion tactics in history. The problem is there's no way to measure what the effect would have been on world terrorism had the fly paper not been laid out in Iraq.

The second advantage of being in Iraq is being poised next door to Iran. Only the future will tell how significant this can or will be.

[Chaotic42]

I'm skeptical about Iraq (even though I tend to be very conservative and pro-military). I don't think that you can force democracy on people. If they were capable of sustaining a democracy on their own, they'd have revolted and formed one.

Every country always has exactly as much democracy as it can handle at the time.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by gdogghenrikson

quagmire.....here I thought this thread was about Family Guy...giggity giggity goo

[baggygreen]

strewth, can we get more OT lol

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by waste gate

So Mr. Pull-Out-Now-Cut-and-Run Democrat(read liberal, secular progressive) we can see how microscopic your commitment to Democracy really is. You're more concerned about being called a Democrat"ic" party than you are committed to Democracy. If this is a quagmire, then you don't have any sense of perspective, not to mention a sense of commitment.

That's a great way to debate: call people names. My experience has shown that the people most likely to be wrong are the ones who "know" they're right. They are also the most dangerous to a free society.

You keep think'n Butch, thats what your'e good at.

I see very little thought in your posts, just diatribe.

"The purpose of an argument or debate should be progress, not victory."-Joseph Joubert

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

But I don't believe Iraq will ever become a western democracy, even should all of Iraq's Sunnis and their local and imported terrorists magically disappear overnight and even should Coalition troops repair Iraq from top to bottom. See these very recent Iraqi poll results, for example.

The first advantage of being in Iraq is its attraction to Islamic terrorists from all over the world. Don't belittle this, as it may possibly rank as one of the greatest military diversion tactics in history. The problem is there's no way to measure what the effect would have been on world terrorism had the fly paper not been laid out in Iraq.

The second advantage of being in Iraq is being poised next door to Iran. Only the future will tell how significant this can or will be.

100% Right

Right. IMO terrorism got a terrific boost.

Who's to say Iraq would even allow themselves to be used in any form against Iran. They are of the same religion. The U.S. will bend over backwards to not have to confront Iran. Not that I agree but I think thats the reality of it.

[ASWnut101]

then what about the Iran-Iraq war?



And p.s.: the largest percent of the population of Iran is actually Persian, NOT Arabic. BIG difference. The government is run by Arabs. Arabs and Persians absoultaly HATE each other, like the bloods and the crypts. There is little that is stopping them from killing each other right now.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

then what about the Iran-Iraq war?

Sadam was running Iraq then.

And p.s.: a large, if not the largest, percent of the population there is actually Persian, NOT Arabic. BIG difference. The government is run by Arabs. Arabs and Persians absoultaly HATE each other, like the bloods and the crypts. There is little that is stopping them from killing each other right now.

Religion, and isn't Iran sponsoring al Sadhr or whatever his name is?