Will Nukes ditch the diesels?

LoBlo · 01-23-07, 11:37 PM

As AIP systems mature, will nukes ditch there back diesels and go with backup AIPs?

I'm thinking that the advantage of an AIP is that in the event of a reactor shutdown, the sub can still operate submerged for a week or so without needing to constantly snorkel... seems like an ideal backup system to me. Only question is whether or not the AIP will be larger or smaller than the existing diesels (I think the Virginias have two V12 backup diesels iirc) or whether or not the AIP will have the horsepower to push a sub the size of an SSN... and of course experience with the systems reliability needs to be established.

Still seems like AIP backups might be the way to go

Henson · 01-24-07, 09:33 AM

The diesel has many purposes, one of which is to emergency ventilate the boat after a fire.

Blower takes forever, diesel sucks that air out in about 20 minutes. That's important when you see nothing but black smoke through your mask.

I-25 · 01-24-07, 11:46 AM

jajaja had to be the french:rotfl:

LoBlo · 01-24-07, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-25

jajaja had to be the french:rotfl:

ha. I wasn't knocking the french. Just that they seem more willing to try unconvientional SSN designs like the Rubis where they used a small nuclear-electric drive or the Barracuda with a nuclear direct drive/electric drive hybrid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henson

The diesel has many purposes, one of which is to emergency ventilate the boat after a fire.

Blower takes forever, diesel sucks that air out in about 20 minutes. That's important when you see nothing but black smoke through your mask.

That's interesting, how does that work? Just opening up the air intake manifold of the diesels to the cabin air and letting the engines suck the bad air out? Didn't know that...

Henson · 01-24-07, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBlo

That's interesting, how does that work? Just opening up the air intake manifold of the diesels to the cabin air and letting the engines suck the bad air out? Didn't know that...

Little more to it than that, but yeah, pretty much.

When we ventilate we intake air through the snorkel mast and expel it out some...well, basically some grating in the sail, or into the ballast tanks if we're surfacing. If we use the diesel, it sucks up more air than the blower could ever hope to push. Smells bad, but strangely enough it fixes air quality problems caused by casualites.

moose1am · 01-25-07, 05:24 AM

Anyone remember the bureau of ordinance refusing to admit that the Torpedoes used by our WWII submarines in 1942 were defective?

Why is is that old farts are so damn slow to adapt to new technology.

Remember them building more battleships before the attack on Pearl and then after that it was AC all the way.

Well when one of these new German, Swedish or other countries Fuel Air powered subs sneaks up on one of our carrier groups and sinks the main carrier they will suddenly wonder why the US didn't build these Fuel Air Independent submarines as well.

I think that these are the future and any old fart in the navy that can't see that should retire right now. These ships are being used to test our antisubmarine forces right now and we are not doing very well against them. If we wait unit there is a war it will be too late to start building these things. Less moving parts makes them the true silent service.

Smaragdadler · 01-25-07, 01:09 PM

Now I know why Sonalyst had to hide the already implemented playable Type 212 in Dangerous Waters and I also understand the reason for the way they have done it...

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...just watch the credits.

Bubblehead Nuke · 01-25-07, 02:49 PM

I would for one prefer a diesel to an AIP system. Less parts to break, simpler to maintain and easy to start when you NEED it to. Remember, we are talking about a BACKUP system. One that gives you juice AFTER the plant has gone down and BEFORE the battery has gone flat.

With a diesel, once you line up the air supply all you have to do it apply some compressed air (no electricity needed to start the thing) to get it rolling and then it runs till you turn the the fuel or air off. Nice and simple. It has its own fuel pump, coolant pump, everything needed is mechanical and attached to the engine. After all, all it does is make electricity and it does it VERY well.

Case in point, during a battery swap we lost shore power. With the battery disconnected it got REAL dark in the boat. We had NO power on the boat and were on flashlights and lighters to see. About 6 valves, and then the hiss of compressed air, and you could hear ol' smokey rumble to life. About 3 minutes later you close ONE breaker (manually as there is no power for the remote switching) and you now have AC power restored. From there it is a simple recovery to restore essential gear.

The criteia we had was this. If the reactor dies, you have enough fuel onboard to get you to a friendly port under your own power. Will you be comfortable DOING this? No, But if you NEED to, you can do it.

View Poll Results: Will SSNs ditch there diesel backups and switch to AIP backups?
Yes! AIP systems would be better.	1	7.69%
No! AIP systems are better but Navy brass hate change	5	38.46%
Maybe... some navy will probably try it... probably the French	4	30.77%
No way! Diesel all the way baby!	3	23.08%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

01-23-07, 11:37 PM	#1
LoBlo Subsim Diehard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas! Posts: 971 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 3	Will Nukes ditch the diesels? As AIP systems mature, will nukes ditch there back diesels and go with backup AIPs? I'm thinking that the advantage of an AIP is that in the event of a reactor shutdown, the sub can still operate submerged for a week or so without needing to constantly snorkel... seems like an ideal backup system to me. Only question is whether or not the AIP will be larger or smaller than the existing diesels (I think the Virginias have two V12 backup diesels iirc) or whether or not the AIP will have the horsepower to push a sub the size of an SSN... and of course experience with the systems reliability needs to be established. Still seems like AIP backups might be the way to go __________________ "Seek not to offend or annoy... only to speak the truth"-a wise man

01-25-07, 05:24 AM	#6
moose1am Frogman Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 303 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Anyone remember the bureau of ordinance refusing to admit that the Torpedoes used by our WWII submarines in 1942 were defective? Why is is that old farts are so damn slow to adapt to new technology. Remember them building more battleships before the attack on Pearl and then after that it was AC all the way. Well when one of these new German, Swedish or other countries Fuel Air powered subs sneaks up on one of our carrier groups and sinks the main carrier they will suddenly wonder why the US didn't build these Fuel Air Independent submarines as well. I think that these are the future and any old fart in the navy that can't see that should retire right now. These ships are being used to test our antisubmarine forces right now and we are not doing very well against them. If we wait unit there is a war it will be too late to start building these things. Less moving parts makes them the true silent service. __________________ Regards, Moose1am My avatar resembles the moderator as they are the ones that control the avatar on my page.

01-24-07, 09:33 AM	#2
Henson Planesman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 185 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	The diesel has many purposes, one of which is to emergency ventilate the boat after a fire. Blower takes forever, diesel sucks that air out in about 20 minutes. That's important when you see nothing but black smoke through your mask.

01-24-07, 11:46 AM	#3
I-25 Commodore Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bavaria, Germany Posts: 629 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	jajaja had to be the french:rotfl:

01-25-07, 01:09 PM	#7
Smaragdadler XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Thuringia Posts: 429 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Now I know why Sonalyst had to hide the already implemented playable Type 212 in Dangerous Waters and I also understand the reason for the way they have done it... . . . . . . . ...just watch the credits.

01-25-07, 02:49 PM	#8
Bubblehead Nuke XO Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 435 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I would for one prefer a diesel to an AIP system. Less parts to break, simpler to maintain and easy to start when you NEED it to. Remember, we are talking about a BACKUP system. One that gives you juice AFTER the plant has gone down and BEFORE the battery has gone flat. With a diesel, once you line up the air supply all you have to do it apply some compressed air (no electricity needed to start the thing) to get it rolling and then it runs till you turn the the fuel or air off. Nice and simple. It has its own fuel pump, coolant pump, everything needed is mechanical and attached to the engine. After all, all it does is make electricity and it does it VERY well. Case in point, during a battery swap we lost shore power. With the battery disconnected it got REAL dark in the boat. We had NO power on the boat and were on flashlights and lighters to see. About 6 valves, and then the hiss of compressed air, and you could hear ol' smokey rumble to life. About 3 minutes later you close ONE breaker (manually as there is no power for the remote switching) and you now have AC power restored. From there it is a simple recovery to restore essential gear. The criteia we had was this. If the reactor dies, you have enough fuel onboard to get you to a friendly port under your own power. Will you be comfortable DOING this? No, But if you NEED to, you can do it.