Bush claims authority to open Americans' mail

[Ducimus]

President Bush is living proof there needs to be an arbitrary limit on how many Signing statements a president can issue during their term in office.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by waste gate

What does this mean?
"in a manner consistent, to the maximum extent permissible, with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances. ..."


Its BS which violates the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

This mess could very easily draw blood.

Can you find me a link to the accepted practices of government postal inspection during WWII?

In fact, try doing the same for the Civil War.

Then we all might know what it means.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Can you find me a link to the accepted practices of government postal inspection during WWII?

In fact, try doing the same for the Civil War.

Then we all might know what it means.

I'd go thru that effort but this is neither the civil war nor WWII, so it doesnot apply.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I'd go thru that effort but this is neither the civil war nor WWII, so it doesnot apply.

There are people planning massive casualty attacks against US civilian, government, economic and military targets. One was not enough?

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

There are people planning massive casualty attacks against US civilian, government, economic and military targets. One was not enough?

I understand that. But violating the Fourth Amendment to our Constitution will not stop people from 'planning massive casualty attacks against US civilian, government, economic and military targets'.

This is a massive invasion of our rights under the Constitution. Based in the signing statement the executive branch of the federal government can violate the fourth amendment without a warrant.

Amendment IV


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


I'm sorry but there are freedoms and rights I will not give up for greater security.

[geetrue]

Why should an honest American citzen be concerned about
his or her mail being opened ...

The US government is not going to prosecute an honest person ...

This is aimed at terroist ... I can't get upset with a country
trying to protect itself ...


Same with cash deals over ten thousand dollars ...
They get reported.

This is no big deal for people like me with junk mail and a
monthly disability check.

Those of you in other countries (you know who) don't
even know if your government is wire taping you or
checking your mail anyway, right?

[TteFAboB]

Good job waste gate.

The government grows bigger by the minute. These are hopeless measures of an entity that knows no way of solving any problem other than by hoping that its natural unlimited self expansion will bring the solution in the end: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa584.pdf

This paper is not intended to attack the
hard-working and well-intentioned members

of our law enforcement and intelligence communities.
Rather, it seeks to illustrate that
predictive data mining, while well suited to
certain endeavors, is problematic and generally
counterproductive in national security
settings where its use is intended to ferret out
the next terrorist.

Originally Posted by Fish

To fly to the US is almost as hard as going to Moskow during the cold war.

I find that statement to be quite cynical. If you intend to compare the USSR and the USA it can only be done through intellectual dishonesty: it is more difficult to travel to the USA today than in the past because of Al-Qaeda's attacks, not because Americans are building paradise on Earth. Ignoring this would only minimize the Soviet Union's Iron Curtain favouring the worse, as always happens when the unequals are equalized by force.

When Europe and the USA are the only points of reference, the "police state" expression can only be used rhetorically, without any regard to reality and in relative form.

[Sailor Steve]

"They who are willing to give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither"

Author unknown, but commonly attributed to Benjamin Franklin (and less commonly to Thomas Jefferson).

Some polls indicate that a lot of people are willing to do just that, whether it's gun control or reading our mail. I say no.

Originally Posted by geetrue

Why should an honest American citzen be concerned about
his or her mail being opened ...

The US government is not going to prosecute an honest person ...

This is aimed at terroist ... I can't get upset with a country
trying to protect itself ...


Same with cash deals over ten thousand dollars ...
They get reported.

This is no big deal for people like me with junk mail and a
monthly disability check.

Those of you in other countries (you know who) don't
even know if your government is wire taping you or
checking your mail anyway, right?

This is why!!!!!!!!!
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[U-533]

Honestly people...

If you have nothing to hide then why let it bother you?

My wife and I receive mostly junk mail...if they wanna open that "Hey more power to them"
As for the rest of my mail its bills and an occasional letter from some relative, most times wanting something...

If they want to listen in on my stupid phone calls thats ok to...

But umm I do draw the line at invading my home... so far ... when the police show up they ask nice real like if they may look around...as long as they ask first I dont mind.

I have nothing to hide.

What I do have hidden they wont find no way sooooo....Im cool

You see this is where the right to bear arms thing comes in... you want to keep your secret stash of WHATEVER secret... when the law comes to your door shoot'em.
This should buy you enough time to find a new place to hide your s#*t...
Just remember one thing when they come back they will shoot you first then ask you questions....

Holy cow people we are at WAR... The enemy will do what it can to win... I mean come on they got 72 ETERNAL virgins thier after...EACH!!
:hmm: I just cant figure out why they stay ETERNALLY virginized?????:hmm: :hmm:

Seems like a useless cause in paradise to me.

Originally Posted by U-533

Honestly people...

If you have nothing to hide then why let it bother you?

My wife and I receive mostly junk mail...if they wanna open that "Hey more power to them"
As for the rest of my mail its bills and an occasional letter from some relative, most times wanting something...

If they want to listen in on my stupid phone calls thats ok to...

But umm I do draw the line at invading my home... so far ... when the police show up they ask nice real like if they may look around...as long as they ask first I dont mind.

I have nothing to hide.

What I do have hidden they wont find no way sooooo....Im cool

You see this is where the right to bear arms thing comes in... you want to keep your secret stash of WHATEVER secret... when the law comes to your door shoot'em.
This should buy you enough time to find a new place to hide your s#*t...
Just remember one thing when they come back they will shoot you first then ask you questions....

Holy cow people we are at WAR... The enemy will do what it can to win... I mean come on they got 72 ETERNAL virgins thier after...EACH!!
:hmm: I just cant figure out why they stay ETERNALLY virginized?????:hmm: :hmm:

Seems like a useless cause in paradise to me.

I do not hide my firearms and I don't think based on this:

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

That the government can open my mail. The same slippery slope applies.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by U-533

Honestly people...

If you have nothing to hide then why let it bother you?

Because if people keep on saying that, we won't have many freedoms left 20 years from now. I have no problem with the government keeping watch over terror suspects, but perhaps there should be some probable cause to do so?

PD

[Camaero]

Seeing as how only those who are guilty will only be the ones in trouble here, it doesn't bother me too much.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I do think it violates that however. We certainly must be careful. A police state does not happen all at once you know. Freedoms are slowly chipped away until one day you wake up and say "Holy shxt!?" Keeping our firearms IS A MUST.

I sort of have mixed emotions on this. On one hand, they are using it to stop people we are at war with. On the other, it does seem to be a violation of an amendment.

[U-533]

"UNREASONABLE SEARCH" will not be tolerated.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by U-533

Honestly people...

If you have nothing to hide then why let it bother you?

Complacency like this, is how Dictator's come to power.