Nordic Hammer - Getting past the Udaloys

LoBlo · 12-03-06, 12:08 PM

I like to go back and replay the Nordic Hammer mission a lot ( I love the fullness of the Russian Fleet with all ASW aspects stacked against you).

Would anyone like to share their tatics for getting past the Udaloy escorts?

Molon Labe · 12-03-06, 06:15 PM

My advice is not to get within 10nm of them, at least not above the layer.

I've had the most success getting only as close to the escorts as I need to to take a shot at a capital ship (usually the Kuznetsov). Running the torps deep and enabling them as late as possible helps get the torps close to the target ships before they run.

There's also nothing wrong with using your first 4 torps to take out the 2 most threatening escorts, and using your second salvo to hit the real target. I'm sure it would feel cool to sneak right up behind those guys and stab them in the back, but I think discretion is the better part of valor in this scenario and that the last thing you want to risk is a close-range counterdetection with lots of ASROC shooters and helos around.

LoBlo · 12-08-06, 06:05 PM

I guess that the real trouble that I've been having is understanding the layer configuration on the scenario. I *thought* I new how to take advantage, but maybe I don't... or maybe the sound model just isn't reflecting the SVP pattern...

I figured that since we have a pretty good surface duct with what *looks* like a sound channel at 800-1000ft (decreasing and then increasing SVP centered at around 900ft), that going to around 800 ft would allow me to have a good listen to the thundering fleet as their noise is propagated through the sound channel and keep me silent...

... but instead at 800ft I don't hear a sound (though they still can't hear me either). Looks like its really just working at the same old "200ft below the layer" rule instead.

Or am I just misinterpreting the SVP in the first place :hmm: .

Molon Labe · 12-09-06, 01:09 AM

You're not misunderstanding the way the SVP should work, however I can't say I've ever noticed an increase in signal strength when moving from what should be the shadow zone into the sound channel. (I think LW disagrees with me on that, though). All I can say for sure is that the number of sound paths modeled is rather limited.

In any case, you still have a significant detection range advantage over the skimmers, and the layer will help you get in rather close undetected at low to moderate speeds. You also have the option of putting a UUV up top, although that's going to clutter up your sonar a lot and/or slow down your aTMA (and take up a useful torp tube).

Avatar · 01-25-07, 02:47 PM

You may be doing this already...
go deeper than the layer, say 300 ft. deeper.

TLAM Strike · 04-18-07, 03:15 PM

Well this breaks every rule in "Good submarine battle tactics 101" but get a shooting solution on the convoy (not the ships the whole f-ing convoy) outside or at the edge of N-14 range. Run in under the layer, fire two salvos of fish (cut the wires on the 1st salvo and reload) and aim for the center of the convoy (where the "meat" is at.) Then run like hell. Repeat as needed.

12-03-06, 12:08 PM	#1
LoBlo Subsim Diehard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas! Posts: 971 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 3	Nordic Hammer - Getting past the Udaloys I like to go back and replay the Nordic Hammer mission a lot ( I love the fullness of the Russian Fleet with all ASW aspects stacked against you). Would anyone like to share their tatics for getting past the Udaloy escorts? __________________ "Seek not to offend or annoy... only to speak the truth"-a wise man

12-03-06, 06:15 PM	#2
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	My advice is not to get within 10nm of them, at least not above the layer. I've had the most success getting only as close to the escorts as I need to to take a shot at a capital ship (usually the Kuznetsov). Running the torps deep and enabling them as late as possible helps get the torps close to the target ships before they run. There's also nothing wrong with using your first 4 torps to take out the 2 most threatening escorts, and using your second salvo to hit the real target. I'm sure it would feel cool to sneak right up behind those guys and stab them in the back, but I think discretion is the better part of valor in this scenario and that the last thing you want to risk is a close-range counterdetection with lots of ASROC shooters and helos around. __________________

12-08-06, 06:05 PM	#3
LoBlo Subsim Diehard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas! Posts: 971 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 3	I guess that the real trouble that I've been having is understanding the layer configuration on the scenario. I thought I new how to take advantage, but maybe I don't... or maybe the sound model just isn't reflecting the SVP pattern... I figured that since we have a pretty good surface duct with what looks like a sound channel at 800-1000ft (decreasing and then increasing SVP centered at around 900ft), that going to around 800 ft would allow me to have a good listen to the thundering fleet as their noise is propagated through the sound channel and keep me silent... ... but instead at 800ft I don't hear a sound (though they still can't hear me either). Looks like its really just working at the same old "200ft below the layer" rule instead. Or am I just misinterpreting the SVP in the first place :hmm: . __________________ "Seek not to offend or annoy... only to speak the truth"-a wise man

12-09-06, 01:09 AM	#4
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	You're not misunderstanding the way the SVP should work, however I can't say I've ever noticed an increase in signal strength when moving from what should be the shadow zone into the sound channel. (I think LW disagrees with me on that, though). All I can say for sure is that the number of sound paths modeled is rather limited. In any case, you still have a significant detection range advantage over the skimmers, and the layer will help you get in rather close undetected at low to moderate speeds. You also have the option of putting a UUV up top, although that's going to clutter up your sonar a lot and/or slow down your aTMA (and take up a useful torp tube). __________________

04-18-07, 03:15 PM	#6
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Well this breaks every rule in "Good submarine battle tactics 101" but get a shooting solution on the convoy (not the ships the whole f-ing convoy) outside or at the edge of N-14 range. Run in under the layer, fire two salvos of fish (cut the wires on the 1st salvo and reload) and aim for the center of the convoy (where the "meat" is at.) Then run like hell. Repeat as needed. __________________

01-25-07, 02:47 PM	#5
Avatar Commodore Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Way out there Posts: 603 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	You may be doing this already... go deeper than the layer, say 300 ft. deeper.