Strange convoy behaviour

Subwolf · 12-06-06, 09:01 AM

I attacked a large convoy, over 30 ships. I surfaced inside the convoy in daylight, the escorts were far away for some reason. The ships in the convoy started to flee in all directions, and two ships even collided, one of them went down :rotfl:

Haven't seen this before, is it normal in SH3?

melnibonian · 12-06-06, 09:04 AM

I think it's a stock bug. Ships start firing at you once spotted but if they hit (or be hit by) another ship they fire back. That's why you tend sometimes to see ships fire at each other without paying attention to your sub.

mookiemookie · 12-06-06, 09:08 AM

This has been discussed here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99692

AVGWarhawk · 12-06-06, 09:13 AM

I really do not see it as a bug. Many ships collided and there was a lot of confusion when the wolf was in the herd. Fog really made a mess of things concerning convoys. Sometimes coded light messages were not received by the ships as to which way to zig or zag (change course), this made for some messes as well. Furthermore, bad weather really screwed things up even if there was no U-boats making trouble. If it is a bug, in my view, it is a good bug.

Subwolf · 12-06-06, 09:19 AM

Thanks, I'll read that thread. But I'm not running the vanilla, and none of the merchants fired at me. Just looked like complete panic.

But I have heard that this actually happened with convoys when attacked, specially in bad weather when they had problems keeping the convoy formation.

melnibonian · 12-06-06, 09:24 AM

It's a common AI problem in SH3. No matter which mod you're using the AI behaviour does not change much. Unfortunatelly the convoy behaviour is not totally realistic although I agree that a level of confusion is acceptable. This behaviour is not seen only in convoys. Warships as well behave like this. If you try to attack a harbour and you're spotted the warship will come straight at you without taking into account the geography. That's why some times they end up aground or they hit other ships.

mookiemookie · 12-06-06, 09:43 AM

I think it probably had something to do with the convoy trying to make a course change, most likely to start zig zagging after they saw you. They aren't too good at synchronizing their turns.

bookworm_020 · 12-06-06, 05:08 PM

I once had two convoys cross each other in the ocean! It caused havoc for the escorts, so I knocked off two troop transports, three tankers, 1 C2, 1 C3 and a liberty ship as well as two escorts who got aggressive.

The other escorts took it rather bad, so they came hunting for me. The first depthcharge attack was close but I gave them the slip and had great fun listening to them depthcharge the empty ocean!

Got to love it!

elite_hunter_sh3 · 12-06-06, 10:07 PM

why not remake the whole AI completely? it can be done right ? and if it can then theres an idea for the expansion (or update) of GWX.

Quote:

Originally Posted by melnibonian

It's a common AI problem in SH3. No matter which mod you're using the AI behaviour does not change much. Unfortunatelly the convoy behaviour is not totally realistic although I agree that a level of confusion is acceptable. This behaviour is not seen only in convoys. Warships as well behave like this. If you try to attack a harbour and you're spotted the warship will come straight at you without taking into account the geography. That's why some times they end up aground or they hit other ships.

melnibonian · 12-07-06, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

why not remake the whole AI completely? it can be done right ? and if it can then theres an idea for the expansion (or update) of GWX.

The problem with remaking the AI is that you end up making a whole new game from scratch. You also have legal problems with Ubisoft as if you go down that road there will be little left from the original game. In any case GWX has improved a bit the AI but not to the level we're talking about. GWX developers have done what is possible within the limitations of the game engine.

Subwolf · 12-07-06, 10:54 AM

I'm not sure that a convoy breaking up is a bug. Been reading a little about convoy tactics, and sometimes the convoy leader did order them to scatter, specially if they were taking heavy losses or when attacked in bad weather and some ships couldn't keep up with the convoy speed. A convoy was never faster than the slowest ship, and some of them could save themselves by speeding up and break out of the convoy.

bigboywooly · 12-07-06, 11:37 AM

Convoy spacings as mentioned earlier in this thread are the problem
Ships too close together to start with so when trying to zigzag or alter course the AI collision routine kicks in and the ships do all sorts
Stop or go backwards etc

The same thing happens if the DD try to enter the convoy looking for you

I have increased convoy spacings on GWX - hopefully got them all - so this should happen rarely

Fingers crossed :rotfl:

Jimbuna · 12-07-06, 12:57 PM

Just be sure to take full advantage of the confusion

SINK EM ALL !!

12-06-06, 09:01 AM	#1
Subwolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA/Norway Posts: 394 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Strange convoy behaviour I attacked a large convoy, over 30 ships. I surfaced inside the convoy in daylight, the escorts were far away for some reason. The ships in the convoy started to flee in all directions, and two ships even collided, one of them went down :rotfl: Haven't seen this before, is it normal in SH3?

12-06-06, 09:04 AM	#2
melnibonian Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reading UK Posts: 3,473 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I think it's a stock bug. Ships start firing at you once spotted but if they hit (or be hit by) another ship they fire back. That's why you tend sometimes to see ships fire at each other without paying attention to your sub. __________________ http://www.thegreywolves.com/ http://wolvesatwar.com/ Download GWX and other goodies: http://hosted.filefront.com/melnibonian

12-06-06, 09:08 AM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	This has been discussed here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99692 __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

12-06-06, 09:13 AM	#4
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,255 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I really do not see it as a bug. Many ships collided and there was a lot of confusion when the wolf was in the herd. Fog really made a mess of things concerning convoys. Sometimes coded light messages were not received by the ships as to which way to zig or zag (change course), this made for some messes as well. Furthermore, bad weather really screwed things up even if there was no U-boats making trouble. If it is a bug, in my view, it is a good bug. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

12-06-06, 09:24 AM	#6
melnibonian Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reading UK Posts: 3,473 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	It's a common AI problem in SH3. No matter which mod you're using the AI behaviour does not change much. Unfortunatelly the convoy behaviour is not totally realistic although I agree that a level of confusion is acceptable. This behaviour is not seen only in convoys. Warships as well behave like this. If you try to attack a harbour and you're spotted the warship will come straight at you without taking into account the geography. That's why some times they end up aground or they hit other ships. __________________ http://www.thegreywolves.com/ http://wolvesatwar.com/ Download GWX and other goodies: http://hosted.filefront.com/melnibonian

12-06-06, 09:19 AM	#5
Subwolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA/Norway Posts: 394 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Thanks, I'll read that thread. But I'm not running the vanilla, and none of the merchants fired at me. Just looked like complete panic. But I have heard that this actually happened with convoys when attacked, specially in bad weather when they had problems keeping the convoy formation.

12-06-06, 09:43 AM	#7
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I think it probably had something to do with the convoy trying to make a course change, most likely to start zig zagging after they saw you. They aren't too good at synchronizing their turns. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

12-06-06, 05:08 PM	#8
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I once had two convoys cross each other in the ocean! It caused havoc for the escorts, so I knocked off two troop transports, three tankers, 1 C2, 1 C3 and a liberty ship as well as two escorts who got aggressive. The other escorts took it rather bad, so they came hunting for me. The first depthcharge attack was close but I gave them the slip and had great fun listening to them depthcharge the empty ocean! Got to love it! __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

12-07-06, 10:54 AM	#11
Subwolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA/Norway Posts: 394 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	I'm not sure that a convoy breaking up is a bug. Been reading a little about convoy tactics, and sometimes the convoy leader did order them to scatter, specially if they were taking heavy losses or when attacked in bad weather and some ships couldn't keep up with the convoy speed. A convoy was never faster than the slowest ship, and some of them could save themselves by speeding up and break out of the convoy.

12-07-06, 11:37 AM	#12
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Convoy spacings as mentioned earlier in this thread are the problem Ships too close together to start with so when trying to zigzag or alter course the AI collision routine kicks in and the ships do all sorts Stop or go backwards etc The same thing happens if the DD try to enter the convoy looking for you I have increased convoy spacings on GWX - hopefully got them all - so this should happen rarely Fingers crossed :rotfl: __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

12-07-06, 12:57 PM	#13
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Just be sure to take full advantage of the confusion SINK EM ALL !! __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!