Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the outgoing Defense Secretary and other

Good luck!!

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Wasting EU money!

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...557842,00.html

[DAB]

yawn, its not financed by EU money.

And whats the concern. If they are innocent, then surely due process will find them innocent.

Originally Posted by DAB

yawn, its not financed by EU money.

And whats the concern. If they are innocent, then surely due process will find them innocent.

OK, then German money. Either way the lawyers will certainly be paid for no reason. As far as due process is concerned it depends on which judge is proceding as to what due process is.

PS what is the 'yawn' directed at?

[tycho102]

I wave my penis in the general direction of Germany.

*waves*

Originally Posted by tycho102

I wave my penis in the general direction of Germany.

*waves*

And I'm sure they appreciate it, since they have problems with sustaining their population.

[mr chris]

Aye what a waste of money they have so many unemployed and they can still find time to fart around trying to send former members of the bush white house to prision. I think they should get there own house in order first before throwing stones.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by waste gate

PS what is the 'yawn' directed at?

*yawn* is sort of like am emote to say... "ho hum, another boring BS post."


Considering this post and your other one today, if i were a shrink, id say you were upset by recent political events and feel the need to lash out to vent your frustration.

[SUBMAN1]

What a bunch of losers! Why not spend their money on something more constructive? WHile were at it, why do they think they can prosecute something that happened in two other countries, and not even in an EU country? Get a life. Its all a puplicity stunt.
-S

[Ducimus]

I honstly dont see how a foreign nation can try any american that isn't within their borders. Were acutally really good at protecting our people from that. In most places we go to, were very careful about establshing a SOFA.

This whole thing isn't even worth the time it took to make a post on it.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

*yawn* is sort of like am emote to say... "ho hum, another boring BS post."


Considering this post and your other one today, if i were a shrink, id say you were upset by recent political events and feel the need to lash out to vent your frustration.

These were the headlines. If that makes me upset, then, I guess CNN, MSNBC, and Drudge ar also upset. The stories are all there.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15652670/
http://www.drudgereport.com/

[TteFAboB]

Hmm, now we know why Skybird faded away. It's him!

[Dan D]

[QUOTE=waste gate]“Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the outgoing Defense Secretary and other”

is pure speculation.
You seem to think that you can read the mind of the German Federal Prosecutor or that there is already sufficient suspicion against Rumsfeld to justify a prosecution to the IC Court in Den Hague. There was no investigation against Rumsfeld yet.

I think the intense “Germany going after Rumsfeld” opinion pieces which are obviously written for the audience at home in the US have to be seen in the context of the controversial Military Commission Act which is actually big news in America because the Congress has made use of its power to limit the jurisdiction of the judicial branch. Actions to limit court review are always controversial and get challenged. This is only the warm up phase to a heated debate within America.

The plaintiffs are Iraqis who are supported by an American NGO (Center for Constitutional Rights), not Germany.
Those plaintiffs want the German Federal Prosecutor to investigate and to open a prosecution against Rumsfeld. Plaintiff and prosecutor are not the same.

But why do they bother German authorities with their complaint and not the ones at home?
As things are seen today, every nation has universal jurisdiction to go after war criminals if the home country refuses to do so.
The German International Crime code has a subsidiary clause: German authorities will open a prosecution on war crimes only if the home country is “unable or unwilling” to do so.
(The first ICC trial ever started this year. A warlord from “unable” Congo is prosecuted for crimes against humanity (children soldiers etc.).

With regard to Rumsfeld this means it is America’s turn first to investigate him. If they do and find nothing fishy about him, there is no room for own investigations by German authorities.
This is actually the second complaint filed against Rumsfeld in Germany. Back then the German Federal Prosecutor temporarily dismissed to open investigations against Rumsfeld because he (now it is a “she”) thought that America is “willing” to investigate Rumsfeld which is their very own job actually because he is American.

The Iraqi plaintiffs and the supporting American NGO who now filed the second complaint seem to think that it now has become undisputable that a serious investigation is not going to happen in America. Again, I think this has to do with the recent legislation (Military Commission Act). Critics of the MCA say that this act is granting retroactive immunity from prosecution for torture war crimes and also say that it has cancelled appeals jurisdiction over war-on-terror cases. The American NGO is targeting the MCA.

My speculation is that there will be another temporary dismissal by the German Federal Prosecutor because it is still open whether American authorities and courts will deal with allegations against Rumsfeld. The US has a Constitution and the MCA is inferior in rank to that Constitution. The US Supreme Court will have a say on the legal approach of the Bush administration towards terrorism. The German FP won’t anticipate the Supreme Court's decision, out of respect and because who other than the US Supreme Court in its wisdom could be more competent to answer the constitutional questions involved.

I for one have full trust in the integrity of the American legal system, you don't?, and so I find speculations that Germany will prosecute Rumsfeld rather funny or what?
Who would be investigating Rumsfeld btw? Mr. Gonzales?

If there will be an investigation about whether US officials have authorised torture crimes or whether it was just a few "bad apples" who acted on own commitment by whoever, this is going to be interesting because German security services were involved too, e.g. they have interrogated German terror suspects at GTMO and have been accused of using torture as well. They also had knowledge about the CIA kidnapping German citizens and have backed it.

Grabbing sugared popcorn here.