NYGM fatigue modeling compromise

11-06-06, 09:07 PM

I play both GW and NYGM, and enjoy them immensely . . . for the most part. My only gripe is the fatigue system in NYGM. Not that I think it's wrong, because I don't. It's logical and sensible, but it's just too labour-intensive for me.

I gave it a good thinking-over and came up with what I believe is a workable and logical compromise. Instead of setting 3DRender to the same setting as Maximum (NYGM recommnds setting both to 1024) I've set the 3DRender setting to 128. And here's why:

Anything over a speed of 256 seems to make aircraft buggy. In case you've wondered why you can run on the surface during the mid-to-late part of the war and never see a plane, you're probably running at maximum compression. So I set my compression no higher than 256 (unless wa-aaaaaaay out in the Atlantic and heading for the US) when traveling to and from my patrol areas, or when on a target (usually convoy) intercept.

That serves two purposes: one is that aircraft encounters become more frequent (yeah, I know . . . like we want to have 'em dropping in on us for lunch?) and the other is that my crew do not suffer fatigue loss (or gain either; can't have your cake and eat it too yanno). I justify the no fatigue loss as simply being the crew rotating watches like they're supposed to do, all on their own.

However, at anything slower than 256 (i.e 126, 64, etc) fatigue does start coming into effect. So lengthy convoy interceptions --or the lengthier escort escapes-- do require me to pay attention to fatigue: which crew are on duty, who is getting tired, which ones are resting . . . sure doesn't pay to have your repair-qualified POs passed out just when ya need 'em!

So far this seems to work for me. I'd enjoy comments and observations from the rest of y'all fine Kaleuns out there if you'd like to pass 'em along though.

Church SUBSIM · 11-07-06, 02:43 AM

I have 2 careers and one I run true to NYGM's standard settings and the other I do exactly as you have described. Either way I can play which career sets my play time when I sit down. I agree that anything over 256 compression makes the AI in SHIII less reliable and takes away from the sim. As you say, when you are way out in the Atlantic, you can afford to advance the compression (depending on year).

Good compromise.

P_Funk · 11-07-06, 03:35 AM

The idea of having fatigue functional at all levels of TC would make for a very long trip to the American coast. Last night I started a drumbeat career and had a patrol grid set just south of Norfolk. Running at 1/3 it would take me 400 some odd hours. Imagine having to change crew a few times a day for HOWEVER MANY DAYS 400 HOURS ARE!

I've never used NYGM before. so could you describe how its fatigue works?

Church SUBSIM · 11-07-06, 09:37 AM

NYGM and GreyWolves (TGW) projects are both outstanding .... you should really give both a go.

The fatuige model in NYGM is not all that unlike several of the options that you find in TGW. Basically the idea is that 3D rendering is equal to that of your highest compression for the hard core player, which in effect means that the fatigue model is in play all of the time. You can create a safe haven of no fatigue by having the 3D rendering set lower than the higest compression (in essence turning it off). For example, 3D rendering is at 125 and max compression is at 1024.

The downside of higher compression (and it effects all mods and the vanilla game) is that higer compression makes the AI forgo certain events (ie: air attacks and such).

Hope that helps.

irish1958 · 11-07-06, 11:09 AM

P_Funk
24X7=168
400/168=2.4 weeks
0.4X7=2.8 days
0.8X24=19.2 hours
0.2X60=12 minutes
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:etc.
I hope this helps.

kylania · 11-07-06, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Funk

The idea of having fatigue functional at all levels of TC would make for a very long trip to the American coast. Last night I started a drumbeat career and had a patrol grid set just south of Norfolk. Running at 1/3 it would take me 400 some odd hours. Imagine having to change crew a few times a day for HOWEVER MANY DAYS 400 HOURS ARE!

I've never used NYGM before. so could you describe how its fatigue works?

50 crew changes in 400 hours at sea.

At least the method I play NYGM using.

Basically I have two shifts for most stations and three watch crews. Every 8 hours (0800, 1600 and 0000) I swap the shifts for each other and rotate in one of the three watch crews. By doing this my men are always around 75% fatigued and are fully rested by the time their shifts come back up. Problem is dragging 20+ lil dudes around the boat several times a minute at high TC really really sucks. :/

I believe you can probably go with just two shifts and run them 12 hours at a time. The problem comes in if you get into trouble. If during midshift, you'll have two sets of half exhausted crew members. With the 8 hour shift plan you've always got some leeway with who's ready for work or not. Remember too, reloading torps takes a long time for people to be stuck in the bow or stern and that runs them down even faster. So it's the difference between being reloaded with a half tired crew or being half reloaded and your entire crew is exhausted and can't reload anymore.

Really play around with it and find your own style. The trick mentioned in this thread about higher TC than 3D views works well, just remember you'll need to work in time to rest your guys up at low TC after the battle and while they are resting the remainder of your crew is getting tired on watch, so it's difficult to catch up sometimes.

11-19-06, 11:43 PM

I kinda guessed that having this moved from the main board to here was a death knell for this.

Steeltrap · 11-19-06, 11:59 PM

I've tried fiddling around with these settings, but I've ultimately disabled fatigue.

I realism it's terribly unrealistic, but I got SOOOOO sick of the fact that I spent far more time moving my crew around than doing anything else in the sim....hell, they should've called it SHRIII - Silent Human Resources: the staffing challenge.

Having turned fatigue off, I no longer have the problems I had before:

- had to move bridge staff after 4 hours in heavy weather, and eventually they couldn't regain in the crew spaces the fatigue they'd got on lookout, so I had to dive for 12-18hrs regularly.

- moving crew every 8 hours - on 256TC that meant doing it every 10 minutes or so (it seemed).

- having to find space for the crew when I dived (carried full crew to cover fatigue, but there isn't space in VII for that level of crew). Also had the problem of people going to the torpedo rooms or overcrowding the engine spaces.

This is something they MUST get right for SHIV. We need a watch bill, and also a 'general quarters' crew position roster. Can set for surface normal, dive normal, and each of those for GQ.

Perhaps the fatigue lessens as your crew gains experience, but I just got fed up. They (the SHIII developers) cannot have tested this properly to have released it the way it is.

11-06-06, 09:07 PM	#1
Albrecht Von Hesse Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Idea for a NYGM fatigue modeling compromise I play both GW and NYGM, and enjoy them immensely . . . for the most part. My only gripe is the fatigue system in NYGM. Not that I think it's wrong, because I don't. It's logical and sensible, but it's just too labour-intensive for me. I gave it a good thinking-over and came up with what I believe is a workable and logical compromise. Instead of setting 3DRender to the same setting as Maximum (NYGM recommnds setting both to 1024) I've set the 3DRender setting to 128. And here's why: Anything over a speed of 256 seems to make aircraft buggy. In case you've wondered why you can run on the surface during the mid-to-late part of the war and never see a plane, you're probably running at maximum compression. So I set my compression no higher than 256 (unless wa-aaaaaaay out in the Atlantic and heading for the US) when traveling to and from my patrol areas, or when on a target (usually convoy) intercept. That serves two purposes: one is that aircraft encounters become more frequent (yeah, I know . . . like we want to have 'em dropping in on us for lunch?) and the other is that my crew do not suffer fatigue loss (or gain either; can't have your cake and eat it too yanno). I justify the no fatigue loss as simply being the crew rotating watches like they're supposed to do, all on their own. However, at anything slower than 256 (i.e 126, 64, etc) fatigue does start coming into effect. So lengthy convoy interceptions --or the lengthier escort escapes-- do require me to pay attention to fatigue: which crew are on duty, who is getting tired, which ones are resting . . . sure doesn't pay to have your repair-qualified POs passed out just when ya need 'em! So far this seems to work for me. I'd enjoy comments and observations from the rest of y'all fine Kaleuns out there if you'd like to pass 'em along though. Last edited by Albrecht Von Hesse; 11-06-06 at 10:29 PM.

11-07-06, 02:43 AM	#2
Church SUBSIM Weps Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 353 Downloads: 121 Uploads: 4	I have 2 careers and one I run true to NYGM's standard settings and the other I do exactly as you have described. Either way I can play which career sets my play time when I sit down. I agree that anything over 256 compression makes the AI in SHIII less reliable and takes away from the sim. As you say, when you are way out in the Atlantic, you can afford to advance the compression (depending on year). Good compromise. __________________

11-07-06, 03:35 AM	#3
P_Funk Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 2,537 Downloads: 129 Uploads: 0	The idea of having fatigue functional at all levels of TC would make for a very long trip to the American coast. Last night I started a drumbeat career and had a patrol grid set just south of Norfolk. Running at 1/3 it would take me 400 some odd hours. Imagine having to change crew a few times a day for HOWEVER MANY DAYS 400 HOURS ARE! I've never used NYGM before. so could you describe how its fatigue works? __________________

11-07-06, 09:37 AM	#4
Church SUBSIM Weps Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 353 Downloads: 121 Uploads: 4	NYGM and GreyWolves (TGW) projects are both outstanding .... you should really give both a go. The fatuige model in NYGM is not all that unlike several of the options that you find in TGW. Basically the idea is that 3D rendering is equal to that of your highest compression for the hard core player, which in effect means that the fatigue model is in play all of the time. You can create a safe haven of no fatigue by having the 3D rendering set lower than the higest compression (in essence turning it off). For example, 3D rendering is at 125 and max compression is at 1024. The downside of higher compression (and it effects all mods and the vanilla game) is that higer compression makes the AI forgo certain events (ie: air attacks and such). Hope that helps. __________________

11-07-06, 11:09 AM	#5
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	Fatigue P_Funk 24X7=168 400/168=2.4 weeks 0.4X7=2.8 days 0.8X24=19.2 hours 0.2X60=12 minutes :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:etc. I hope this helps. __________________ Irish1958

11-19-06, 11:43 PM	#7
Albrecht Von Hesse Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I kinda guessed that having this moved from the main board to here was a death knell for this.

11-19-06, 11:59 PM	#8
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I've tried fiddling around with these settings, but I've ultimately disabled fatigue. I realism it's terribly unrealistic, but I got SOOOOO sick of the fact that I spent far more time moving my crew around than doing anything else in the sim....hell, they should've called it SHRIII - Silent Human Resources: the staffing challenge. Having turned fatigue off, I no longer have the problems I had before: - had to move bridge staff after 4 hours in heavy weather, and eventually they couldn't regain in the crew spaces the fatigue they'd got on lookout, so I had to dive for 12-18hrs regularly. - moving crew every 8 hours - on 256TC that meant doing it every 10 minutes or so (it seemed). - having to find space for the crew when I dived (carried full crew to cover fatigue, but there isn't space in VII for that level of crew). Also had the problem of people going to the torpedo rooms or overcrowding the engine spaces. This is something they MUST get right for SHIV. We need a watch bill, and also a 'general quarters' crew position roster. Can set for surface normal, dive normal, and each of those for GQ. Perhaps the fatigue lessens as your crew gains experience, but I just got fed up. They (the SHIII developers) cannot have tested this properly to have released it the way it is.