Can we have a "Pacific Submarine War for Dummies" FAQ?

Steeltrap · 11-01-06, 01:28 AM

As it happens I've read plenty about the Pacific Theatre. I've also always been interested in submarines.

It should be clear to all but an idiot that operating far from any friendly assistance, as was always the case in the Pacific due to its dimensions, under conditions where you were always open to attack at any stage - let alone being expected to find targets etc... - would be stressful. Breakdowns of equipment could prove disasterous, although the crews were pretty ingenious at overcoming some fairly challenging issues (I like the one on Wahoo about getting the dentists at Midway to fill in the pits in the sleeve of the periscope which had been tearing the insulation and packing, causing a constant - although small - leak when raised!).

While it is true that the USA subs were far more reasonable in their crew accommodations and facilities than the Germans, that's more a real indictment of the Germans' subs than saying the USA's were pleasure cruisers! Aircon alone made a significant difference, especially in the hot, humid Pacific, where the sea temperature served to increase temperatures. The sweating and salt tablets mentioned were a good indication that things weren't much fun when running silent.

It IS true that the Japanese did not develop their ASW cpabilities anywhere near the extent to which the Allies did. It's NOT true to say they were impotent - 52 subs (or whatever the exact loss figures are) is still plenty, especially given the fact that the USA deployed far fewer subs than did Germany.

The biggest point is that the subs were overwhelmingly successfull in strangling Japan. I think something like 90% of shipping from mid-44 onwards failed to reach their destinations.....90%!!!! Japan received NO oil shipments in 1945. Thos examples say it all - the subs of the USA were responsible for the most successful interdiction campaign by submarine anywhere, ever. Period.

So, 'easier' than the Atlantic? On balance, yes. 'Easy'? No. Less challenging? Possibly, but had plenty of challenges unique to the conditions.

Done well, the sim should be excellent, interesting and challenging. Same as Atlantic? No. Is that a bad thing? Not at all.

ook · 11-01-06, 05:32 AM

"Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War Against Japan" by Clay Blair <- the best FAQ ever. ;-)

Sawdust · 11-01-06, 07:00 AM

I'm going to have to read up on the submarine war in the Pacific, too, as I don't know much about it. (Just think, there're lots of good movies about the Battle of the Atlantic, but the only Pacific sub movie I can think of is "Operation Petticoat"! :p)

Did the Japanese have any type of sonar? That's a big part of the SHIII game. Maybe the Japanese could still find you by hydrophone when you are trying to hide...but would the enemy's abilities have to be artificially increased to improve gameplay?

cmdrk · 11-01-06, 10:46 AM

One thing to remember is the numbers between the Atlantic and Pacific. The number of ships and subs involved was much greater in the Atlantic which is smaller than the Pacific. The ship densities makes the Pacific numbers smaller. If the density matched the Atlantic, I suspect the tonnage sunk / subs lost to be much closer.
Stealing a line from a movie, Its like comparing apples and oranges, but its all fruit.

Yes the Japanese had sonar, not every escort did, but often one ship did in a convoy. They also had radar dispersed in a like manner.

Other Pacific sub movies - Run Silent, Run Deep - Torpedo Run - Destination Tokyo. Older films with varying value.

Respenus · 11-01-06, 04:09 PM

Well some people will say that America had it's submarine war going on really easy compared to the Germans. But as many of you have posted here, those were two different theaters, with two different enemies and two different idologies!

But I'd still say that Kaleuns were the best!

I like submarines. Really I do. I find them very,... attractive

Both US the German subs looked alike, but you just can't beat the atmosphere on board a U-Boat!

John Pancoast · 12-01-06, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ook

"Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War Against Japan" by Clay Blair <- the best FAQ ever. ;-)

Yep !

11-01-06, 07:00 AM	#3
Sawdust Planesman Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Quadrant DB22 Posts: 198 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm going to have to read up on the submarine war in the Pacific, too, as I don't know much about it. (Just think, there're lots of good movies about the Battle of the Atlantic, but the only Pacific sub movie I can think of is "Operation Petticoat"! :p) Did the Japanese have any type of sonar? That's a big part of the SHIII game. Maybe the Japanese could still find you by hydrophone when you are trying to hide...but would the enemy's abilities have to be artificially increased to improve gameplay? __________________ .-. --- ..- --. .... ... . .- ... .- .... . .- -..

11-01-06, 04:09 PM	#5
Respenus Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,169 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well some people will say that America had it's submarine war going on really easy compared to the Germans. But as many of you have posted here, those were two different theaters, with two different enemies and two different idologies! But I'd still say that Kaleuns were the best! I like submarines. Really I do. I find them very,... attractive Both US the German subs looked alike, but you just can't beat the atmosphere on board a U-Boat! __________________

11-01-06, 01:28 AM	#1
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	As it happens I've read plenty about the Pacific Theatre. I've also always been interested in submarines. It should be clear to all but an idiot that operating far from any friendly assistance, as was always the case in the Pacific due to its dimensions, under conditions where you were always open to attack at any stage - let alone being expected to find targets etc... - would be stressful. Breakdowns of equipment could prove disasterous, although the crews were pretty ingenious at overcoming some fairly challenging issues (I like the one on Wahoo about getting the dentists at Midway to fill in the pits in the sleeve of the periscope which had been tearing the insulation and packing, causing a constant - although small - leak when raised!). While it is true that the USA subs were far more reasonable in their crew accommodations and facilities than the Germans, that's more a real indictment of the Germans' subs than saying the USA's were pleasure cruisers! Aircon alone made a significant difference, especially in the hot, humid Pacific, where the sea temperature served to increase temperatures. The sweating and salt tablets mentioned were a good indication that things weren't much fun when running silent. It IS true that the Japanese did not develop their ASW cpabilities anywhere near the extent to which the Allies did. It's NOT true to say they were impotent - 52 subs (or whatever the exact loss figures are) is still plenty, especially given the fact that the USA deployed far fewer subs than did Germany. The biggest point is that the subs were overwhelmingly successfull in strangling Japan. I think something like 90% of shipping from mid-44 onwards failed to reach their destinations.....90%!!!! Japan received NO oil shipments in 1945. Thos examples say it all - the subs of the USA were responsible for the most successful interdiction campaign by submarine anywhere, ever. Period. So, 'easier' than the Atlantic? On balance, yes. 'Easy'? No. Less challenging? Possibly, but had plenty of challenges unique to the conditions. Done well, the sim should be excellent, interesting and challenging. Same as Atlantic? No. Is that a bad thing? Not at all.

11-01-06, 05:32 AM	#2
ook Seaman Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 38 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	"Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War Against Japan" by Clay Blair <- the best FAQ ever. ;-)

11-01-06, 10:46 AM	#4
cmdrk Planesman Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 184 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	One thing to remember is the numbers between the Atlantic and Pacific. The number of ships and subs involved was much greater in the Atlantic which is smaller than the Pacific. The ship densities makes the Pacific numbers smaller. If the density matched the Atlantic, I suspect the tonnage sunk / subs lost to be much closer. Stealing a line from a movie, Its like comparing apples and oranges, but its all fruit. Yes the Japanese had sonar, not every escort did, but often one ship did in a convoy. They also had radar dispersed in a like manner. Other Pacific sub movies - Run Silent, Run Deep - Torpedo Run - Destination Tokyo. Older films with varying value.