Iraq policy shifting soon?

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Relax. You won´t find many people here that hate Americans and Skybird is most certainly not one of them. He criticises certain aspects of the US government (and also his own and many others) and his intention is not to bait anyone.

Just for the record on this hot debate, i do not hate Americans in Gerneral. There are only a few people i hate that are from amerca. I just disagree with thier political ideas, and that strongly. But there is no reason to hate anyone.

On other forums i also criticise my own governement, but here, nobody cares for this anyway. And since i am to retarded to Start good topics myself...

*Ducks away again*

[ASWnut101]

* in a sniper nest 1 mile away, with a tranquilizer rifle*

crap! he ducked away again! :p

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

* in a sniper nest 1 mile away, with a tranquilizer rifle*

crap! he ducked away again! :p

*In a tunnel right under ASW's sniper nest*

crap! the shovel broke again! :p

[ASWnut101]

:p!

*marks spot for tank to drive on*

heheheee!

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

:p!

*marks spot for tank to drive on*

heheheee!

*marks tank for Bombardment by Hind*



*Fixes shovel and goes after ASW*

Don't push it. Let it go...:rotfl::rotfl: (Rambo 1)

[HunterICX]

:hmm: I dont hate america, but I dont like the governement of today

and about that private airplane over NY...Now ''He's American'' ''small plane''
dont forget what can be packed inside the SMALL plane. enough to create severe damage to an high building.

If they would allow small private planes fly over NY, and some terrorist groups find a way to do the same thing without too much trouble. Hey you got urself an second 9/11 not as bad as the original one...but enough to shake the world into a second terror.

Planes over NY = NO! if ur learned from 9/11 planes must go around and now where near the city at all. but yeah...can u save NY from Terrorist attacks...No not really.there are many ways for terrorist to sneak inside any city in any country to create havoc.


now back to iraq:

The soldiers had to be gone long time ago, if they try to prevent an civil war , forget it, if the soldiers are still there or not...Hell wil brake lose and the american soldiers dont know the bloody reason to stay.

Let iraq be in an state of civil war...after 20 yrs the country will regain his strenght and then we look again of how things are going on.

the longer the american stays in their...the more u piss iraqies off.
get out. bring the soldiers home back to their families

[Coda]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

:hmm: I dont hate america, but I dont like the governement of today

There are quite a few Americans that feel the same way.

Originally Posted by HunterICX

and about that private airplane over NY...Now ''He's American'' ''small plane''
dont forget what can be packed inside the SMALL plane. enough to create severe damage to an high building.

If they would allow small private planes fly over NY, and some terrorist groups find a way to do the same thing without too much trouble. Hey you got urself an second 9/11 not as bad as the original one...but enough to shake the world into a second terror.

Planes over NY = NO! if ur learned from 9/11 planes must go around and now where near the city at all. but yeah...can u save NY from Terrorist attacks...No not really.there are many ways for terrorist to sneak inside any city in any country to create havoc.

Well, let me try to explain to you what it means to live in America.

General aviation is part of our country. [Airlines are commercial aviation, different issue] It's something that many Americans enjoy. We do it as sport, hobby, convienence and competition. It's part of our way of life.

Just because some fanatics attacked our country using airplanes, it doesn't mean we are going to stop flying. It doesn't mean that we are going to close down airspace around cities where small planes fly. It means we will take more precautions and possibly stronger regulations to prevent a repeat occurance.
Some things have changed. Life may be a little more difficult. Regulations are enforced and security is tighter.

However, there is no way in hell we will ever give up our way of life or any freedom in our country because of the actions of some terrorist. To do that, to live our lives in fear, to take away any portion of our way of life, is surrenduring to the terroist in defeat.

[fredbass]

Originally Posted by The Noob

Just for the record on this hot debate, i do not hate Americans in Gerneral. There are only a few people i hate that are from america. I just disagree with thier political ideas, and that strongly. But there is no reason to hate anyone.

It just doesn't make sense not to agree with our ideals. The political ideals of the U.S.A. are quite simple. We are a democracy, which is a government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

So you don't like the fact that we attempt to get everybody else in that same situation? Why wouldn't you? Most of you here in this forum live in countries that have a democratic society. The U.S.A. is the most successful and therefore most powerful. I say, instead of fighting it, you should join it. And then you won't have to complain that you can't do everything that we can.

[August]

Originally Posted by fredbass

It just doesn't make sense not to agree with our ideals. The political ideals of the U.S.A. are quite simple. We are a democracy, which is a government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Fred you have to understand that most of these Europeans cannot even concieve of such things. Their entire history is filled with despotic kings and dictators who ruled their subjects by the sword.

We are alien to them and they will never understand us. Worse we understand them all too well and that infuriates them to no end.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Fred you have to understand that most of these Europeans cannot even concieve of such things. Their entire history is filled with despotic kings and dictators who ruled their subjects by the sword.

We are alien to them and they will never understand us. Worse we understand them all too well and that infuriates them to no end.

We are just blinded by your shining armour, that's all...

You seem to think all reality is exactly like your ancestors have written down rules on pieces of paper, and because they show up to be like this and that in that text, realility would be like that. You believe too easy, and are determined not to see the many distortions, aberations and violations that have taken place since then. By paper-form, the US looks wonderful. By judging it how it once has been meant to be (in a different world, under different situational conditions) it is great. But today is 2006, globalised trade, megalomania, imperial structures, strong plutocratic elites. the simple fact that Iraq war 2003 took place illustrated how badly damaged your system already is, and how damaged your rules and institutions already are. Hollowing out, this phrase is always on my mind when thinking about the US and the EU.

and on that theatralic carrier thing again, AL's hinting to the Wikipedia really sums it up nicely:

Bush's historic jet landing on the carrier, the first by a sitting president, was criticized by opponents as an overly theatrical and expensive stunt. For instance, they pointed to the fact that the carrier was well within range of Bush's helicopter, and that a jet landing was not needed. [1] Originally the White House had claimed the carrier was to be too far for a helicopter landing, and a jet would be needed to reach it. On the day of the speech, the Lincoln was only 30 miles from shore but the administration still decided to go ahead with the jet landing. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer admitted that the president "could have helicoptered, but the plan was already in place. Plus, he wanted to see a landing the way aviators see a landing". [2] It was never explained why the President couldn't have simply visited the ship while it was in port (although, if he followed usual Presidential travel procedures, he still would have had to use a helicopter to make the final leg of his journey.) The Lincoln made a scheduled stop in Pearl Harbor shortly before the speech and returned to its home base in Everett, Washington on May 6, 2003.

The banner stating "Mission Accomplished" was the main source of controversy and criticism. One crew member stated the banner referred specifically to the aircraft carrier's mission (which was the longest deployment of a carrier since the Vietnam War) and not the war itself and the White House claimed that the banner was requested by the crew of the ship. Afterwards, the administration and naval sources stated that the banner was the Navy's idea, White House staff members made the banner, and it was hung by the U.S. Navy personnel.

The banner stating "Mission Accomplished" was the main source of controversy and criticism. One crew member stated the banner referred specifically to the aircraft carrier's mission (which was the longest deployment of a carrier since the Vietnam War) and not the war itself and the White House claimed that the banner was requested by the crew of the ship. Afterwards, the administration and naval sources stated that the banner was the Navy's idea, White House staff members made the banner, and it was hung by the U.S. Navy personnel. [3] This version has since been disputed. The event was carefully choreographed by administration staffers, including positioning cameras to capture the president with the banner over his shoulder. According to John Dickerson of TIME magazine, the White House later admitted they actually hung the banner. [4] In spite of the controversy, it has continued to be standard practice to hang banners with patriotic slogans behind President Bush, especially when he speaks to military gatherings.
The event was criticized by many as premature — especially later as the guerrilla war began. Subsequently, the White House released a statement alleging that the sign and Bush's visit referred to the initial invasion of Iraq. The speech itself noted:
We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous." [5]
However the speech also claimed that:
"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."[6] When he received an advance copy of the speech, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld took care to remove any use of the phrase "Mission Accomplished" in the speech itself. Later, when journalist Bob Woodward asked him about his changes to the speech, Rumsfeld responded:"I was in Baghdad, and I was given a draft of that thing to look at. And I just died, and I said my God, it's too conclusive. And I fixed it and sent it back…they fixed the speech, but not the sign."

AL,
I misunderstood a whole paragraph after first reading it, now realise what it really says. Thus, I correct my former acceptance of your correction and reject to take your point as stated before!

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by August

Fred you have to understand that most of these Europeans cannot even concieve of such things.

Remember: Americans are Europeans too. From where do you think you Come from? You people not appeared out of nothing.

Originally Posted by August

Their entire history is filled with despotic kings and dictators who ruled their subjects by the sword.

Yes. And you think you escaped your history just by moving in another part of the planet? I hope not, this would be very foolish.

[August]

Originally Posted by The Noob

Remember: Americans are Europeans too. From where do you think you Come from? You people not appeared out of nothing.

Only some Americans are of European extraction, not all. How typically European of you to think so.

Yes. And you think you escaped your history just by moving in another part of the planet? I hope not, this would be very foolish.

Actually that's exactly what the Americans of European extraction did. We left you. That's why we call it "The New World".

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by fredbass

It just doesn't make sense not to agree with our ideals.

My dad says the same about Left Wing ideas. This is strange.

Originally Posted by fredbass

The political ideals of the U.S.A. are quite simple. We are a democracy, which is a government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Again, the same could be said about the Communistic idea. And i not mean russia, but the theory.

Except about the "free electoral system" wich is a farce to begin with, since the dumb majority wich can easily be manipulated controles the country.

Originally Posted by fredbass

So you don't like the fact that we attempt to get everybody else in that same situation?

If i take my most fafored land, Sweden and compare it to america then no, i don't want it to get another america with all the Crazy and nuts things from there.

Originally Posted by fredbass

Most of you here in this forum live in countries that have a democratic society.

Me too. But as i already have written, there is much difference between "Americanny Democracy" and "European Democracy". And i don't like the american version.

Originally Posted by fredbass

The U.S.A. is the most successful and therefore most
powerful.

How did you archive this power? Yes, with slave work, wich you still have today. The difference is that you pay them enougt not to die istand of feeding them at work. Not to forget different tricks and unfair trades wich you still have today.

Your philisophy is "Buy it or Bomb it!". Can't buy it cause people resist? Then Bomb it.

That made you the richest country in the world.

Originally Posted by fredbass

I say, instead of fighting it, you should join it.

Many people say different.

Originally Posted by fredbass

And then you won't have to complain that you can't do everything that we can.

Wich Complains? I can do everything i want over here.

[fredbass]

Originally Posted by The Noob

Except about the "free electoral system" wich is a farce to begin with, since the dumb majority wich can easily be manipulated controles the country.

If i take my most fafored land, Sweden and compare it to america then no, i don't want it to get another america with all the Crazy and nuts things from there.

there is much difference between "Americanny Democracy" and "European Democracy". And i don't like the american version.

How did you archive this power? Yes, with slave work, wich you still have today. The difference is that you pay them enougt not to die istand of feeding them at work. Not to forget different tricks and unfair trades wich you still have today.

Your philisophy is "Buy it or Bomb it!". Can't buy it cause people resist? Then Bomb it.

I can do everything i want over here.

Well I'm glad you can do what you want over there, Noob. In the mean time my country will continue to thrive and millions of people from all over this planet continue to move here so they can be an american like me.