Did Uboats really shoot down airplanes ?

Achtung Englander · 10-03-06, 06:22 AM

In Das Boot just the mere sight of a airplane (especially a Sub Spitfre) would have them screaming "aaaaaaaaaaalllllllaaarrrmmmmmmm" yet in the game you just hit a button and your flak gunner usually gives them what for and you notch up your kills with lots of planes

is that really realistic ?

Captain Nemo · 10-03-06, 06:29 AM

In the book 'Iron Coffins' by Herbert Werner he tells of instances where his u-boat shot down enemy planes when sailing out of the Bay of Biscay. This was during the latter stages of the war when Allied aircraft more or less pinned down the u-boat forces coming out of France. Generally speaking, u-boat commanders would rather submerge than take on aircraft as the risk of being sunk was too great.

Nemo

HunterICX · 10-03-06, 06:32 AM

Historicaly , there where some planes shot down by submarine but most of the times they dived when there was a sight of them.

If i,m Right I red about an Herrkaleun shooting an plane down with the Deck Gun

but its a game, If I spotted an plane I mostly try to dive but when its to close I man the flak gun and try to down them and if he's still alive after his first bombing run after that I crash dive to. because after he dropped the first 2 bombs you got time to crash dive to hide urself

Phantom II · 10-03-06, 06:40 AM

Oh, when you have either GW or NYGM installed, you'll want to think twice about engaging those planes.

-Phantom

Achtung Englander · 10-03-06, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterICX

but its a game,

what are you talking about

this is war - war is not a game

CWorth · 10-03-06, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Historicaly , there where some planes shot down by submarine but most of the times they dived when there was a sight of them.

If i,m Right I red about an Herrkaleun shooting an plane down with the Deck Gun

but its a game, If I spotted an plane I mostly try to dive but when its to close I man the flak gun and try to down them and if he's still alive after his first bombing run after that I crash dive to. because after he dropped the first 2 bombs you got time to crash dive to hide urself

Exactly the same way I handle the planes.Crash dive most of the time and only fight then dive after they pass only if i have no other choice.

Its always best to save your boat and go after worthwhile targets then duke it out with planes and risk heavy damage to your boat or worse yet being sunk.

kylania · 10-03-06, 09:37 AM

From http://uboat.net/history/aircraft_losses.htm

Quote:

125 aircraft shot down by 97 individual U-boats for the loss of 31 U-boats either sunk during the attack or due to being located by other forces shortly afterwards and sunk. One source says that RAF Coastal Command (U-boat hunters) lost 700 aircraft (badly damaged, shot down and paid off - not all to U-boats of course) and sank 220 U-boats during the war. I've been unable to verify the RAF losses but the U-boat figure is about right it seems. These figures show the immense effort put out by the British to hunt down the U-boats and almost all the aircraft successes took place in 1942 and later.

Biggles · 10-03-06, 09:57 AM

I mostly stay and fight but that depends on where I am. Just outside Cuba I spotted a HUGE formation of B-24 Liberators, so I dived.....I'm not stupid you know......

If it would be outside France, then I'd load my guns and let smoke some yanks

Respenus · 10-03-06, 10:18 AM

I haven't been in a real plane right since my install of the GW mod, but I saw in the training mission, it's hard like hell. In the stock version, I always duked it out, but now, I'm gonna reconsider my "just watch and shoot" attitude towards planes :hmm:

kylania · 10-03-06, 10:58 AM

I was in a patrol in June 1941 north of Scapa Flow and my god the planes!! Eight attacks, three of which damaged me. Ended up with under 50% hull integrity by the end of it. Good thing I didn't have to go deep to avoid any ships, I wouldn't have made it.

The whole time I think I got off maybe one flak shot. They were attacking me usally within 30 minutes of surfacing. Sometimes as long as a few hours and twice within 5 minutes of showing myself on the surface! Five minutes!

NightCrawler · 10-03-06, 01:12 PM

When i was in 1940 with my first VII, and my flakker wasn't even a pro, just an mate.
AN 14 just when sunrise early in the morning a swarm of 5x3 swordsfish planes try to attack me, and later 2 lousy swordsfish who think they can handle after they saw 15 flyboys hitting the water...
He shot them all, man... he had a blast of his lift, and my boot was 99% hull damages...
After the mission i gave that mate every deccoration...

yobert · 10-03-06, 03:36 PM

If i rember correct they put on some heavy AA weapons on some U-boats to lure down plane to kill then, it work for a short while befor the british leard that tactic.

Hueywolf123 · 10-03-06, 05:11 PM

Yes, in reality, they did shoot some down. My great uncle was killed when U-343 shot down the wellington he was the navigator on, just off the Costa del sol, in Spain.
The previous night the same U-boat was the first to recieve a 'Swamping' when it was going through the Gibraltar Straight, this is deatailed in a book called 'Cold Sea, Dark Sky' or something like that. It was fairly obvious that they knew they missed the boat and sent ASW aircraft out to find it.
They actually sent me a copy of the boats patrol log, but it is in German (any translators?)

Steeltrap · 10-03-06, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hueywolf123

Yes, in reality, they did shoot some down. My great uncle was killed when U-343 shot down the wellington he was the navigator on, just off the Costa del sol, in Spain.
The previous night the same U-boat was the first to recieve a 'Swamping' when it was going through the Gibraltar Straight, this is deatailed in a book called 'Cold Sea, Dark Sky' or something like that. It was fairly obvious that they knew they missed the boat and sent ASW aircraft out to find it.
They actually sent me a copy of the boats patrol log, but it is in German (any translators?)

Hey fellow Aussie!

Sorry to hear about your great uncle - kind of reminds us we're simulating something that wasn't much fun in reality.

Peter Cremer in U-333 details some of his encounters with aircraft. They did shoot at least one down (interestingly, they didn't realise it at the time!). Cremer had served as a gunnery officer on a DD and actually had his crew use the 88mm as flak, quite effectively! He understood the calculations and orders necessary to make this effective, but that was an exception to the norm.

Once you run something like NYGM 2.2 you'll dive ASAP. The mod enables aircraft to use their cannon/mg in straffing runs - it's wicked! Gives a much more realistic flavour, though, as it brings home the fact that U-boats weren't intended to take on aircraft.

The Munster · 10-04-06, 01:51 AM

Shot down a Walrus and thought 'great' til I looked at the damage to the Sub and dead Flak Gunner resulting in losing my Career. I dive immediately now once I get the 'Aircraft Spotted' etc. better to be safe than sorry !

10-03-06, 06:22 AM	#1
Achtung Englander Loader Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 81 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Did Uboats really shoot down airplanes ? In Das Boot just the mere sight of a airplane (especially a Sub Spitfre) would have them screaming "aaaaaaaaaaalllllllaaarrrmmmmmmm" yet in the game you just hit a button and your flak gunner usually gives them what for and you notch up your kills with lots of planes is that really realistic ? __________________ Achtung ! Spitfeur !!

10-03-06, 06:32 AM	#3
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Historicaly , there where some planes shot down by submarine but most of the times they dived when there was a sight of them. If i,m Right I red about an Herrkaleun shooting an plane down with the Deck Gun but its a game, If I spotted an plane I mostly try to dive but when its to close I man the flak gun and try to down them and if he's still alive after his first bombing run after that I crash dive to. because after he dropped the first 2 bombs you got time to crash dive to hide urself __________________

10-03-06, 06:40 AM	#4
Phantom II Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 139 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Oh, when you have either GW or NYGM installed, you'll want to think twice about engaging those planes. -Phantom __________________

10-03-06, 09:57 AM	#8
Biggles Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweden (I'm not a Viking...) Posts: 3,529 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I mostly stay and fight but that depends on where I am. Just outside Cuba I spotted a HUGE formation of B-24 Liberators, so I dived.....I'm not stupid you know...... If it would be outside France, then I'd load my guns and let smoke some yanks __________________

10-03-06, 10:58 AM	#10
kylania Silent Hunter Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,528 Downloads: 118 Uploads: 0	I was in a patrol in June 1941 north of Scapa Flow and my god the planes!! Eight attacks, three of which damaged me. Ended up with under 50% hull integrity by the end of it. Good thing I didn't have to go deep to avoid any ships, I wouldn't have made it. The whole time I think I got off maybe one flak shot. They were attacking me usally within 30 minutes of surfacing. Sometimes as long as a few hours and twice within 5 minutes of showing myself on the surface! Five minutes! __________________

10-03-06, 06:29 AM	#2
Captain Nemo Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 1,144 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	In the book 'Iron Coffins' by Herbert Werner he tells of instances where his u-boat shot down enemy planes when sailing out of the Bay of Biscay. This was during the latter stages of the war when Allied aircraft more or less pinned down the u-boat forces coming out of France. Generally speaking, u-boat commanders would rather submerge than take on aircraft as the risk of being sunk was too great. Nemo

10-03-06, 10:18 AM	#9
Respenus Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,169 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I haven't been in a real plane right since my install of the GW mod, but I saw in the training mission, it's hard like hell. In the stock version, I always duked it out, but now, I'm gonna reconsider my "just watch and shoot" attitude towards planes :hmm:

10-03-06, 01:12 PM	#11
NightCrawler Engineer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: FLA USA Posts: 217 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	I had one mission before GW When i was in 1940 with my first VII, and my flakker wasn't even a pro, just an mate. AN 14 just when sunrise early in the morning a swarm of 5x3 swordsfish planes try to attack me, and later 2 lousy swordsfish who think they can handle after they saw 15 flyboys hitting the water... He shot them all, man... he had a blast of his lift, and my boot was 99% hull damages... After the mission i gave that mate every deccoration...

10-03-06, 03:36 PM	#12
yobert A-ganger Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 77 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	If i rember correct they put on some heavy AA weapons on some U-boats to lure down plane to kill then, it work for a short while befor the british leard that tactic.

10-03-06, 05:11 PM	#13
Hueywolf123 Bosun Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: gosford, Australia Posts: 68 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yes, in reality, they did shoot some down. My great uncle was killed when U-343 shot down the wellington he was the navigator on, just off the Costa del sol, in Spain. The previous night the same U-boat was the first to recieve a 'Swamping' when it was going through the Gibraltar Straight, this is deatailed in a book called 'Cold Sea, Dark Sky' or something like that. It was fairly obvious that they knew they missed the boat and sent ASW aircraft out to find it. They actually sent me a copy of the boats patrol log, but it is in German (any translators?)

10-04-06, 01:51 AM	#15
The Munster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deepest Dumbria Posts: 1,243 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Shot down a Walrus and thought 'great' til I looked at the damage to the Sub and dead Flak Gunner resulting in losing my Career. I dive immediately now once I get the 'Aircraft Spotted' etc. better to be safe than sorry !