french and terroism

[August]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

We didn't need detergent, your white flgas are well pretected and we take care of them, you know we use them soo often, we can send you some if you want, we I see how you manage to our operations in lebanon, the next war you may have use of them.

I knwo the story of France and other country also, you always refer to french surrending during WW2 but there were a lot of other country who cease hostilities with the Nazi in 1940 but it s always to the french people you remind this, not the belgian, dutch, poles, ..... In situation where this only 2 choice continue combat with only more death or preservation of your troops what did you choose ? (it like the fall of the Phillipines and Bataan siege), you can blame the french but were the english troops, the alos flew at Dunkerk.
You can think what you want 60 years after with knowledge of all the events of the war but in 1940 the situation was should we fight until total annihilation or declare a cease fire and stop the war.

When I think of France it isn't the 1940 surrender that comes to mind, but rather The Maquis de Lafeyette and the aid your people gave us in defeating the British. I think of things like the Statue of Liberty, a gift from the French people, or how the French still cheered Lindberg when he landed at Orly although two of their fliers, including the legendary Nungesser, had just gone missing in their own cross atlantic attempt. I think of the thousands of shot down Allied airmen that were saved from the Germans at the expense of French lives. I think of the thousands of Allied soldiers who survived the D-day invasion because ordinary French civilians blew up bridges and ambushed German columns and installations (and paid the price in blood), sometimes even while allied bombs were destroying their homes and killing their families.

Forget "Freedom fries" and idiots who feel the need to badmouth the country who has been our longest standing Ally. They and their words do not represent the whole of the American people.

[fredbass]

I'm fully aware what France has done in the past, but remember, there is a difference between the past, present and future. The current generation of frenchies as well as many others don't seem to have the same level of appreciation and good will towards the U.S. as they did in the past. Of course I have no doubt that when they get in trouble, they'll come crawling back on their hands and knees begging us to help them.

[UglyMowgli]

At this time those who crawling toward you are Israelian (see the lastest declaration of Olmert).
I can give you a lot of examples were France help USA in the last years (from the assistance to your intelligence agency after the 9/11 to the evacuation of US citizen by french SF many time).

Lot of us dislike French because the non-intervention in Iraq, USA go to war but with false evidences about WMD, a lot of lies and without any plan for the after Saddam, and did you get a near civil war, an increase of terrorism cells, ... you could disagree with us but I don't care ; I prefer see French troops in Afganisthan fighting Talibans than being useless in Iraq.

[Yahoshua]

A fake but still funny.....the other 3 flags should be replaced with the U.N. flag though. More accurate that way.



Btw, I am:

25% USA
25% German
25% French
15% Finland

And the rest of me is Irish, English, and Scottish.

Quite a dilemma whenever I want to make a decision.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

At this time those who crawling toward you are Israelian (see the lastest declaration of Olmert).
I can give you a lot of examples were France help USA in the last years (from the assistance to your intelligence agency after the 9/11 to the evacuation of US citizen by french SF many time).

Lot of us dislike French because the non-intervention in Iraq, USA go to war but with false evidences about WMD, a lot of lies and without any plan for the after Saddam, and did you get a near civil war, an increase of terrorism cells, ... you could disagree with us but I don't care ; I prefer see French troops in Afganisthan fighting Talibans than being useless in Iraq.

France's intel is an international top adress for middle east affairs. Much of what the ameicans had done and planned during and after the field battle in 2003 would not have been possible without massive assistance from French intelligence. they have a special departement for Islamic terror that is unique in the West and that outclasses the competence of any other western intel organization in this field, including the American services. It had a close operation with the americans all the time - even at times when the anti-french rethoric and almost hysteric sentiments in the US spiked into the sky. Within Europe, the reputation of the French intelligence services is such that they are no friends of many scruples.

I question much of France' policies myself, and dislike the way they form and isolate their political "elites" who then rule in an alomst aristocratic manner. But the anti-French balking of Americans whenever the word "France" is said reminds me of a dog that has been conditioned to slobber even when only a picture of a bone is shown to it. such is not the behavior of a free and reasonable mind, but illustrates the actor to be a victim of a conditioned reflexes he has no control over. Same goes for the time and again repeated criticism that Germany is unthankful for the liberation from Hitler and Germans have no right to criticise american policies, for it is the country where the Nazis ruled in and so Germans better should shut up. Even today

Simply idiotic.

Like I do with American people and american policies and politicians, one should to with the French (and Germans) as well: make a difference between French people, and their politicans and policies. I wouldn't greet Chirac/Bush even if he holds his hand to me, but that does not mean I feel angry towards the French/Americans. They may make me wonder about some of their habits and differences. Okay, that is Europe: a collection of differences. that's what makes europe such an attractive target for holidays: diversity.

[SkvyWvr]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

At this time those who crawling toward you are Israelian (see the lastest declaration of Olmert).
I can give you a lot of examples were France help USA in the last years (from the assistance to your intelligence agency after the 9/11 to the evacuation of US citizen by french SF many time).

Lot of us dislike French because the non-intervention in Iraq, USA go to war but with false evidences about WMD, a lot of lies and without any plan for the after Saddam, and did you get a near civil war, an increase of terrorism cells, ... you could disagree with us but I don't care ; I prefer see French troops in Afganisthan fighting Talibans than being useless in Iraq.

Tell me about how you helped the US during the Libyan air strikes. Your government wouldn't allow our aircraft to refuel in your air space. To be fair however, we pulled into several southern French ports afterwards and most of the people there were very apologetic for their governments decision.

[UglyMowgli]

What do you know about operations Manta and Epervier and the attack of the airbase of Ouadi-Doum in february 86 by french airforce?
French troops fight against lybian troops on the ground and in the air since 1984 in Chad, a country who just interrest USA since vast oil filed were discovered in the past years.

[SkvyWvr]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

What do you know about operations Manta and Epervier and the attack of the airbase of Ouadi-Doum in february 86 by french airforce?
French troops fight against lybian troops on the ground and in the air since 1984 in Chad, a country who just interrest USA since vast oil filed were discovered in the past years.

Good grief. Oil, oil, oil. Everything boils down oil for the uninformed. What does your autos run on, Wine?

[UglyMowgli]

It s just a fact, chad was a country USA ignore during many years, even when you were in troiuble with lybia (who invade north of chad to mine uranium) and the only country who stop them was france (did you know that the first Hind attack helicopter USA get in the 80' was given by the french after captring 3 of them in the northern of chad)
At the begining of the 2000, US oil company prospect in Chad and US troops (mainly SF) arrive in this country when the company discover oil fields.
I not talking about Darfour who get a strong interrest from your gvt actually (for humanitarian reason).

We use russian , norvegia, british, algerian, saoudian oil, France is the country with the most possible different source of oil in the world and one with the most pure air (just because 80% of the electricity production is nuclear).

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by fredbass

The current generation of frenchies as well as many others don't seem to have the same level of appreciation and good will towards the U.S. as they did in the past.

A country can still be an ally and disagree with our policy.

I feel it is unrealistic to assume that all of our allies will always agree with everything about our foreign policy.

Sometimes we can learn best from a friend that disagrees with us.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Platapus

A country can still be an ally and disagree with our policy.

I feel it is unrealistic to assume that all of our allies will always agree with everything about our foreign policy.

Sometimes we can learn best from a friend that disagrees with us.

Il n'y a pas de médias qui traitent l'information correctement sur les Etats-Unis.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by August

When I think of France it isn't the 1940 surrender that comes to mind, but rather The Maquis de Lafeyette and the aid your people gave us in defeating the British. I think of things like the Statue of Liberty, a gift from the French people, or how the French still cheered Lindberg when he landed at Orly although two of their fliers, including the legendary Nungesser, had just gone missing in their own cross atlantic attempt. I think of the thousands of shot down Allied airmen that were saved from the Germans at the expense of French lives. I think of the thousands of Allied soldiers who survived the D-day invasion because ordinary French civilians blew up bridges and ambushed German columns and installations (and paid the price in blood), sometimes even while allied bombs were destroying their homes and killing their families.

Forget "Freedom fries" and idiots who feel the need to badmouth the country who has been our longest standing Ally. They and their words do not represent the whole of the American people.

Amen.

Before I traveled to Paris for the first time in 1994, several people told me to expect the French to treat me rudely. Ha! It was the exact opposite. I met and made several French friends during my three tips to France. Except for one harried waitress, French people treated my very well.

[joea]

August and Neal, real gentlemen you both for that.

[Oberon]

Damn straight, and I know that this'll sound strange coming from the mouth (or hands) of an Englishman, but whenever I think of the French, I think not of Napoleon, or the countless times our two countries have clashed...but I think of the people who hid our soldiers in the years between Dunkirk and D-day, of the people who sabotaged the Nazi military machine, and of those who gave their lives, when all hope seemed lost, when there was a steel helmet on each corner, they still went out, and helped us. The liberation of France was made a helluva lot easier by the help of the French people.

Viv' La France

[Perilscope]

^^^ Well said Oberon!