Reality V Enjoyment

[Threadfin]

Originally Posted by kylania

The reality of Silent Hunter III, a u-boot simulator, was that 90% of players would die and lose their ship. That they'd spend weeks with no targets only to sink to a random air attack. Their equipment would be obsolete and their weapons wouldn't work.

While that's all "reality" and has been modeled into several mods for SH3, for some losing like that isn't "enjoyment". Some people enjoy the challenge of using unusable equipment in a losing struggle while others just want to blow stuff up or enjoy commanding a submarine. Super duper AI can be very challenging, but if it's too strong it can ruin the game for many players.

I have no idea how to respond to this, maybe it wasn't directed at me, but you did quote me.

I'll try again, for me realism = enjoyment. The more realistic it is, the more I enjoy it. The two sims I play more than all others are Grand Prix Legends and Falcon 4: Allied Force. I also play SH3 and find it far too easy. It's a great subsim, but far from realistic. Too many ships, sailing too straight a course at too steady a speed, with a sub and torpedos that are too reliable. Even on 100% settings I can sink a million tons per year in SH3, and that says it all really.

Again, it's fine with me if others want to play it however they enjoy it, but for me I want it as realistic as possible. Believe me, if SH4 has a setting that is 'historical torpedo performance' that is what I'll use. I want erratics, and duds, and faulty magnetic exploders. I want torpedos that can't keep proper depth, that broach, and porpoise, and jog off track for seemingly no reason. Essentially, i want it to be like reality. I could not care less for any attempt to 'play balance' a sim.

If others want it to be more gamey, because that's what they enjoy, that's fine, I have zero problem with that, and that's what options are for. One needs look no further than the majority of screenshots on this forum to see how many use exterior views, and event camera and the 'detection meter' thing. In Falcon 4 lots of people use labels, and they offer a million different ways to justify it. For me, it's not realistic to have labels, and I don't use them, simple as that.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Threadfin

I have no idea how to respond to this, maybe it wasn't directed at me, but you did quote me.

I'll try again, for me reality = enjoyment. The more realistic it is, the more I enjoy it. The two sims I play more than all others are Grand Prix Legends and Falcon 4: Allied Force. I also play SH3 and find it far too easy. It's a great subsim, but far from realistic. Too many ships, sailing too straight a course at too steady a speed, with a sub and torpedos that are too reliable. Even on 100% settings I can sink a million tons per year in SH3, and that says it all really.

Again, it's fine with me if others want to play it however they enjoy it, but for me I want it as realistic as possible. Believe me, if SH4 has a setting that is 'historical torpedo performance' that is what I'll use. I want erratics, and duds, and faulty magnetic exploders. I want torpedos that can't keep proper depth, that broach, and porpoise, and jog off track for seemingly no reason. Essentially, i want it to be like reality. I could not care less for any attempt to 'play balance' a sim.

If others want it to be more gamey, because that's what they enjoy, that's fine, I have zero problem with that, and that's what options are for. One needs look no further than the majority of screenshots on this forum to see how many use exterior views, and event camera and the 'detection meter' thing. In Falcon 4 lots of people use labels, and they offer a million different ways to justify it. For me, it's not realistic to have labels, and I don't use them, simple as that.

<shrug> All a matter of perspective I guess. I.e., GPL has a heavily flawed tire model (among other things).

AF has an incredibly unrealistic awacs code (among other things).

In other words, until a game itself is 100% realistic (which means most likely never), I won't be wasting my limited off-time playing it as such

My .02 fwiw.

[Threadfin]

[Threadfin]

Ya know it's funny John, because your gripe with GPL has always been the tire model. You don't drive it because it's not realistic enough for you. So I'm not sure where you stand exactly, because you now seem to be taking the opposite stance.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Threadfin

Ya know it's funny John, because your gripe with GPL has always been the tire model. You don't drive it because it's not realistic enough for you. So I'm not sure where you stand exactly, because you now seem to be taking the opposite stance.

Huh ? Simply pointing out that no game is realistic, and GPL was an example given.

And since the tire flaw does exist, what's the problem ?

Also, fwiw, I still play GPL occasionally, after playing it regularly for *years*, so I guess it's not to bad a "gripe", eh ?

NR2003 has a similar problem, and I still play that one occasionally too

[Threadfin]

Well, I know that there is a difference between reality and realism. I'm saying I want it as realistic as possible. That's it.

[Sailor Steve]

It can never be real, but it's nice when it feels real.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Threadfin

Well, I know that there is a difference between reality and realism. I'm saying I want it as realistic as possible. That's it.

I'd agree with that

Also think Sailor Steve's comment is a good one; it needs to *feel* real.